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In answer to Jim's question about a good sound engine for acoustic sounds, I tried Tassman (a soft synth plugin) a while ago which had an acoustic modelling engine and some very nice breathy flute sounds. I'm probably in the same boat as many people on this list who would like to use more natural sounding instruments and/or loops but does n't have the space or financial resources. So with this constraint I'm left attempting to humanise electronic sounds or take human sounds and warp them with electronic engines, and I do find that if you vary enough parameters such as filter, resonance, velocity and timing you can start to create loops which maintain a groove but different on each repeat. I dont know if you can do this with an EDP, but this is certainly possible with many of the modular software synths today. It an obvious thing to say but to me what separates an electronic and real instrument apart (other than an expressive interface) is the natural degree of error with which a real instrument is played. Maybe if manufacturers of hardware/sofware added more degrees of error into these devices they would become more human. Or perhaps use human playing to control the profile of an electronic sound (kind of like the opposite of taking an acoustic drum loop and looping it electronically). But surely, at the end of the day, the source does not matter.. The end result always decides if we are move emotionally or not, and the sound of crashing waves or the sound of a jet taking off come from different ends of the spectrum, and move us in different waves and both have some kind of value. having said all that, give me John Bonham over an 808 any day (oh shit I nearly mentioned Led Zep) - better unsubscribe... OJ > from: Matthias Grob <matthias@grob.org> > date: Sun, 09 Feb 2003 22:52:31 > to: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com > subject: Re: Real instruments vs. electronic instruments vs. electric >instruments > > >speaking of, i'm thinking of getting a malletkat and i was wondering if > >anybody has suggestions for a good sound engine for acoustic sounds. >it's > >not so off-topic...the reason i don't get an acoustic > >marimba/vibraphone/etc. is because it's very easy to loop with an >electronic > >device (as opposed to looping a pair of mics) and loop with this device >i > >will. > > > >-jim > > right, the origin of this threat is not OT at all: Electronic > instruments somehow dont fit with the what most of us like about live > looping. We want to take advantage of the organic playing which has > been "opressed" by electronic music. And loop units are basically > capable, but we have a feedback and noise problem. So far nothing new. > > Now, there is a clear distinction between electric and electronic > instruments. Unfortunately those names are not very clear: An > electric instrument picks up a physical vibration while the > electronic instrument generates electronically. > > So what we want for looping are electric instruments! > They do not only preserve your organic operation of it, but in many > cases enhance it! > For example, a PARADIS guitar has a dynamic you could never get from > an acustic instrument. My electric clay pot has a dry bass kick note > when you close one hole and hit the other hole. With both holes > closed, no acoustic sound comes out, but a headphone cell between > inside and outside grabs it drasticly! > We can create very small electric instruments that would never work > acoustically. > I made a bass Kalimba for example, by attaching a weight to the > tongues. The ordinary small Kalimba box is never able to transmit > such low notes, but a piezo pickup is! > The same goes for all vibrating materials with little surface: they > dont move air, but the pickup gets the vibration authentically, so > you can make every silent object audible! > I am sure, a marimba with a piezo in each tone sounds much fuller, > more balanced and more dynamic than it ever could through > microphones! And probably cheaper. > > The problem is always where to put the pick up. Sometimes the wire is > also a problem, but usually lesser than a mikstand would be. > In case of the marimba, the point where the key is supported would be > obvious. But I see two problems: > - the key may be too loose and vibrate off the support, which would buzz >ugly > - the hit of the mallet is fully translated to the pickup which might > be to much of attack. > So the pickup would have to be glued into the wood. I am sure it > picks up, because I have done such things before. But then, you have > a wire to every key and its inevitably sensible also, since its end > is at the piezo. So you have to conduct it in a way that it cannot be > touched and does not dampen the keys vibration... should be possible, > no? > > So please go ahead and build those instruments, unfortunately I dont > find time for it... > it has been my work before the looping story and I still find it just > as important for the development of the music culture! > -- > > > ---> http://Matthias.Grob.org >