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On Sunday, March 30, 2003, at 06:53 PM, Andre LaFosse wrote: > - The EDP has been in production, with a few breaks, for about nine > years and two software upgrades. Both Gibson (the manufacturer) and > Aurisis (the brain trust that actually designs the units) are alive > and well, as is the product they've been putting time and money into. > The former has seen fit to revamp the EDP for the European market, and > the latter has seen the software through two software upgrades Uh... yeah. Is there a question as to what I think if the EDP? It's an amazing box. A classic, no doubt. Did I suggest otherwise? > - The Repeater, at a slightly lower street price, destroyed the > company which had created it, and the Repeater itself, in less than > one year of its release. The now-extinct unit is still saddled with a > fair number of bugs and a unique (and seemingly very difficult to > replace) power supply. The way I use the Repeater I never encounter it's fair number of bugs, and so far the power supply seems fine, though I agree that it's a sad story waiting to happen when it fails. Did the Repeater destroy the company that created it? Did Frankenstein's monster kill the doctor, or was it the way he treated the misunderstood creation that led to his demise? Not much use arguing that now. > For my money, I'd be willing to spend an extra $200 on a looper if it > gave me a choice between these two scenarios. At this point, you've got little choice, eh? My point wasn't to say which one was better. My point was to say it would be better for all loopers if there were more looping devices. > >> If the Repeater had been flying out the door, they probably would >> have continued it's development, as would Gibson have continued it's >> development of the EDP. > > Conversely, the fact that the Repeater destroyed Electrix now > potentially makes life more difficult for other people who are looking > to design a looper. Because if a software designer is trying to shop > or licence real-time looping code to a manufacturer, the Electric > model of "business" could scare the hell out of prospective companies. I'm not sure if that train of logic applies. It's kind of like saying the fall of Moog would have scared off any future synth manufactures. All you need to do is type Electrix Repeater into ebay's search engine to see that it's selling for more than it's original list price, which has to count for something. Warts and all, the Repeater is an amazing animal. (as I think the EDP is, in case anyone thinks I feel differently) I'd love to know how many units were sold. Judging the Repeater by Electrix's poor business model is like judging the minimoog for Robert's like of business prowess. Doesn't make much sense. > > The idea of looping in general is actually more popular than ever, > thanks largely to the proliferation of software programs like Ableton > Live, ACID, and now Radial - so much so that there's now a dedicated > category for "loop editors" in a lot of music retail web sites. While I'm glad these products are available to the public, I personally have little interest in them. I'm all about the live input real time looper. While neither form of looping is better than the other, I don't care about ACID. I'm not sure if I believe that the success of Abelton's Live and the possibility of a new real time live input product have all that much to do with each other, but I sure hope so. Again, my point is that commercial success for one loop music product is success for all. Maybe devices like Plugzilla will take over and this whole argument will be moot. Hardware will be more like modern PCs and all we'll have to do is buy one that's got enough speed and memory to run the software we want. Matthias? Kim? VST version of Loop5? My guess is that this will be the future for all of us. > These programs are not necessarily designed with live-input looping in > mind, but the fact that so many people are interested in real-time > loop-based music making means that more and more people's heads are > getting tuned to the idea. And that means there will be lots of > people > who, for whatever reasons, will be more inclined to want an > EDP/Repeater/Boomerang than a computer running Ableton/Radial/ACID. Does it? I sure hope so. > So I'm sorry, Mark. I'm sorry nobody's come up with a label to > describe every member of this list that I agree with. Apology accepted. > I'm sorry I haven't been able to demonstrate what's so special about > the EDP in a manner that justifies the cost to you. Uh... I bought one. (Had to return it because it was basically dead out of the box, but the Repeater I traded it for landed me enough cash to buy an EDP+, which is what I intended from the get go.) I'm very puzzled that my love for the Repeater seems to equate hatred for the EDP in your eyes. I can't for the live of me remember ever saying a single disparaging thing about the EDP, and have suggested it to many. For years I lusted over it, but could not afford it when it was in production. OK, when I had the cash I went for the Repeater because a lot of what I was trying to do required multiple tracks, but soon after bought an EDP BECAUSE I WANTED ONE. I'm sorry I don't have a successful website that promotes the EDP like you do, but I do what I can. I'm *very* interested in it's success, because it's the only game in town. That's very scary to me. Imagine that only a single company made the type of instrument that you used to make music, and claimed that the product didn't do all that well. (Kim's words, not mine) OK, there are other loopers out there (Hi boomerang fans!) but I need MIDI synch, so if my Repeater was stolen, the EDP is pretty much my only recourse. A fine one at that. > I'm sorry if 6,000 page views in 15 months > for a looping tutorial site with no advertising budget isn't getting > you the results you'd like. I'm very happy for your success. I'm not sure what you're music's success and the EDP's continued success has to do with each other (Torn's use of the Repeater on a David Bowie album didn't save it) but OK. I'm a fan. I've purchased your albums and have given them glowing reviews. Why are you so easily offended by my wishes for many cheap midi syncable loopers to be available to me? I also wish that I was the ruler of the world so that I could personally smack everyone who's ever used a leaf blower, but hey, that's me. > Maybe if I posted nasty and curmudgeonly messages to Looper's Delight > criticizing the attitudes and efforts of its other members, I'd really > be getting somewhere. In the meantime, I have to go finish an album. Yes, maybe if I spent the time I used making posts to Looper's Delight I'd be as good as you, or maybe I'll always be a hack. > I hate to be argumentative, Mark, but you may not realize how hurtful > your kind of attitude can be. Please think about this next time, > before you scream through your keyboard again? > I'm not going to censor myself, as I don't think you should censor yourself so I suggest you use your email client's filtering abilities to auto delete my posts. My point was that it seemed sad to me that a classic and still successful product like the EDP didn't warrant an upgrade after 10 years of production. It's made with a processor that's extinct, at this point. That should worry all of us. Is it wrong for me to hope that things would look up for the EDP to a point that Gibson puts some development money into a version that runs on modern hardware? I was just speculating that if the EDP could be made with a processor that was currently mass produced, it could be a bit more affordable which would possibly bring more people to the world of live looping. How this is an affront to you or your music or the way you make music is beyond me, but I'm sorry I pissed you off. If I were you, I'd start that email filter pronto. Mark Sottilaro