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RE: EDP signal input and MIDI looping

I'm posting these together since they're related.

Cheap (not really) MIDI Looper:
In theory, you could convert particular MIDI messages (say a Note-On/-Off)
into particular tones (like FSK, frequency shift keying), then loop the
output tones in a "conventional" looper like the EDP, Repeater, Boomerang,
or whatever.  You would need a decoder at the output, too, or course.

Decoding will take some time ("latency") since frequency recognition cannot
be instaneous.  Even better would be to loop a DC voltage level (which
encodes the MIDI message), but then you would need a DC-coupled looper.

One of my examples in the Looper Construction Kit for Kyma is such a MIDI
looper.  Kyma loopers are "DC-coupled" (since they are in software) so I
don't need to do the FSK thing.  I should be able to build a FSK MIDI
encoder/decoder using Kyma, so you could loop MIDI with an Kyma/EDP combo.
I assume you can build something similar with MAX/MSP.  But that seems
rather silly (except for prototyping) since it's easier to loop MIDI
directly with Kyma or MAX.

A primary difference between MIDI looping and audio looping is that a MIDI
controlled tone (a "note") is typically described by two events seperated 
time (Note-On and Note-Off).  You probably want to link the two events
(manipulating them together) so that you won't have "stuck" notes and such
as you overdub, insert, decay/fade, chop, dice, and puree the loop.

The technique I've described above does not link the Note-On and Note-Off
events, so I wouldn't count it as a "real" MIDI looper, though it *does*
work remarkably well.

And very intriguing thoughts, Mark, on features for a MIDI looper!  Please
post more thoughts!

Dennis Leas

-----Original Message-----
From: Fsksync@aol.com [mailto:Fsksync@aol.com]

Does anyone know of a device that encoded midi into an audio tone so it
could be recorded to an audio cassette (or other recorder) and then decoded
back to midi, making the cassette machine a crude sequencer? It seems I
dimly remember such a (cheap!) device flashing by for a millisecond. If
something like that was available, it might be possible to do "something"
with a bunch of them and a bunch of digital delays (you couldn't use any
audio feedback on the delays, though) and midi mergers. Such a thing would
be basic and crude, no frills, but one might get the most basic live midi
looping (tm) function going.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jesse Ray Lucas [mailto:jlucas@neoprimitive.net]

That's a really cool idea though...

> At 03:29 PM 7/26/2003, Dennis W. Leas wrote:
> >Is the audio path AC or DC coupled?  In particular, will the EDP
> >record/playback a suitably scaled CV for instance.  (Twisted thought, I
> >know.)
> it is ac coupled. you can't loop a dc voltage.
> kim