RE: Looping with other musicians, new tools=new results

["Mike Barrs" <mbarrs@nightviewer.com>]

> From: ernesto schnack [mailto:schnack@mailbolt.com]

> 
> On Sat, 30 Aug 2003 11:25:05 -0700, Travis <tiktok@sprintmail.com> wrote:

> > That's one school of thought.  The other school of thought (that
> > the drummer has the primary [not sole] responsibility of keeping 
> > time for the rest of the band) has many more adherents, at least
> > in North America.
> 
> hmm, I don't know if I agree entirely.  It seems to me it's not so
> much about a "school of thought" as much as getting to a certain
> level where you realize you're not supposed to depend on the drummer
> to keep time.  Reminds me of Meshuggah whose guitarist has such a
> solid sense of time that the drummer is the one following HIM.

In my experience, that's pretty rare. Most people I've played with depend 
on drummers for tempo, at least you do when you when you have a good one. 

In one band I was in, we had a problem because the drummer (and bass 
player) would get excited and speed up during guitar solos. We would end 
every song twice as fast as we started. That band never understood that 
increasing energy and dynamics isn't the same thing as increasing tempo. 
And there was NOTHING I could do, as a guitar player, to hold them back. 
I've played in other bands where the rhythm section could still float a 
little, according to what the song needed, but where it was much harder to 
budge them out of the groove. That kind of band is a joy to play in. 

One more comment about drummers... 

They play an instrument that is designed to be a clearly heard, as a 
rhythm pulse. There's no mistaking the kick, snare, and hi-hat in a band 
mix. It's easy for other players to lock onto. And the drummer gets to 
think ONLY about the tempo pulse... not about what key change is coming 
up, or or what scale they should be playing over this chord.

If the band metronome suddenly becomes the guitar player or keyboard 
player (via looping), then everyone might suddenly be trying to extract 
timing information from a more diffuse, hard to recognize sound. I know 
I've played loops with my electric guitar and FX processing where I get 
into the "swirly zone", and it's hard to figure out just where the 
downbeat is. That's never a problem when you're working with a drummer, or 
percussionist. They never have timing cues buried under a wash of other 
sounds. 
 
> I find this thread very interesting because I'll be looping with 
> a drummer 
> soon, and I intend to try with both a click and without to see what 
> happens.  It's his first time doing something like that, but he's 
> interested in trying it.  I shall report my findings.

I'd be very interested to hear how that turns out!

Mike Barrs