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My favorite loops are the ones which still have noticeable events in them, but you eventually lose track of where they begin and end. Since the loopers I use the most have a 4 second time limit, the "seam" (aka start point) comes up more often. To combat this, I often turn them out of phase while sampling the same thing. That way, it takes several revolutions of a single loop before the listener could discern a repeat of the 2-loops-perceived-as-one-loop. On my new dealie of looping a drum machine with a dl-4, I tend to create a take of semi-rhythmic normal drum machine fare, then apply a layer of semi-random extraneous noises, then repeat, changing the sound identities of the drum machine the whole time. Btw, This saturday, I'll be doing a set of looped turntable and drum machine (not at the same time, since that would make me a "dj"). The event is an all electronics music night as part of the week-long "Neighborhood Public Radio" festival-like-thing at 21 Grand (449B 23rd St) in Oakland, California. The whole thing runs from 4pm-11:30pm. I'm tentatively slated to be on at 10:00. Other acts include Tim Perkis + Wobbly, Big City Orchestra, RAJAR (manipulated live radio), CMAU (home-built instruments & laptops), & Recursive Heretics (sax & processing duo). More info at http://www.21grand.org/20040117.html _________________________________________________________________ Get a FREE online virus check for your PC here, from McAfee. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963