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hi, i struggle with this question a lot. try to evaluate what did/didnt work about the compositions or the process of realizing the compositions. was it your method of communicating the composition to the musicians: -orally (ex: describing the piece before playing, yelling ideas or cues during performance), -notated score (of some convention... or not), -flash-cards (cues / descriptive..), -conducting (tempos/grooves/or set-up some system/set of conventions where your movements determine certain sonic limits: frequency,timbre.. then dance! or just dance without any system.), -with your instrument (ex: giving sonic/musical cues, or play a given idea to one group/musician, then when they have the idea they 'loop' it, 'overdub' other ideas by selecting and playing to other musicians...) is there is a schism between your expectations of the musicians and their ability/interest to meet these? how much trust do you have in your musicians --at what point are you able to let-go of your creative vision for the sake of the performers' personal sense of contribution/responsibility to the music -ultimately, for a successful performance ?? 'composing' comes in all forms... what makes you want to 'compose'? figure-out what the bare minimum limit(s) that the composition must satisfy to fulfil your desire to compose. then you have a composition. if what you desire is simply a return of good improv material, it might be as simple as holding up flash card when everyone is doing something you like, so that they make a mental note to remember exactly what they're doing, then you can keep recalling this particular event with the appropriate flash card. or... telling your musician(s) to create an A-B-A structure where 'B' is distinguished by some marked change of tempo or whatever. then practise this composition: by repeatedly creating A-B-A forms. maybe a simpler composition.. thanks for the opportunity to think about this. (i appreciate any comments...) dani oore http://www.cs.toronto.edu/~oore/dani/index.html >From: Dan Soltzberg <d.ans@rcn.com> >Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com >To: Loopers Delight <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com> >Subject: Improvising vs. composing >Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 00:30:07 -0500 > >Hi gang, > > >Would love to hear peopleıs experiences with this dilemma: > >Iıve been doing a project, Orange, for a couple years. Tonight, I packed >my >gear out of a rehearsal space and turned in my keys after 3 months of >struggling with trying to take this improvisational project and make it >more >structured i.e., take stuff weıd made up and recorded at various shows >and >sessions and re-learn it and make a bunch of songs out of it. I just >found >I >wasnıt enjoying the process of trying to do this. > >So it seems Iım no longer very interested in writing and playing songs >what >I really get inspired doing is going out on a limb and making the music up >as I go. I canıt seem to get the kind of spiritual high I get when Iım >improvising if Iım playing stuff thatıs pre-structured. Not that I donıt >like structure I just like creating it on the fly. > >Problem is, 1. Itıs kind of intense to go to every show having no idea of >what Iım going to play, hoping the muse is on the guest list > >2. Itıs hard to bring other musicians in without having at least some >structure. > > >Thoughts? Similar experiences? Solutions? > > >Dan > > >-- >ghost 7/ Orange >http://www.envelopeproductions.com >d.ans@rcn.com > _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/bcomm&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca