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Thanks for the tip on the lo fi pitch shifter, Michael! That's a cool plugin from smartelectronix (which is a wonderful website). Have you also tried the really great CHOPITCH vst plugin (octave and down pitch shifting ) that our own Matthias Grob, Andy Butler and several others have developed? www.chopitch.com. I love it. It is awesome for mangling and accurately down pitching loops. It also has a lot of randomization features for reordering the audio information replete with randomization percentage settings on things like pitch, reverse, etc. I'm particularly enamored of programs that allow for randomization in processing, another reason why I am loving FLStudio for loop manipulation. It is particular great for percussion tracks (or at least that is my bias, lol). I'm working on a track for my next abstract electronica CD where I just used cymbal bell sounds that gate each other, run, in real time, through the chopitch with me improvisize with the controls as the loop runs. Everything I did on the rhythm tracks was done in one pass with this cool plugin. I'll post an mp3 of it at audiopluginjunkiesanonymous@yahoogroups.com. It's tentatively titled "Don't want to change my life". which is a little site that I established so people can post mp3s of examples of plugins that we talk about at the Audio Plugin Junkies Anonymous tribe at tribe.net. While I"m mentioning it, there is also a fun Looping tribe called CYCLETRONICA at tribe.net that Mark Sottilaro established. see you there, rick