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In a message dated 7/6/04 2:40:01 PM, mtman@cloud9.net writes: << Fifteen minutes of trying to figure out why the thing doesn't do what I expect, and the lack of intuitiveness has me ready to throw in the towel. >> Just a further note. I have used several digital recorders and they tend to partition into System function and Utility function. Sometimes there is a seperate Edit function but often edit is part of the Utility mode. There is some similarity to digital camera interface. For instance, to delete a photo you have to switch to display, select the photo, push the trash button, select erase and then hit Store or Set. In other words, 4 or 5 step process. You may have to grit your teeth and spend more than 15 minutes to get a handle on these thingies. More like a couple of hours. :-) As for real rugged durability, then you are talking about professional quality thousands of dollars type stuff. regards BobC