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Man I have learned a ton what a blast I have been doing C6/A7 tuning on my SG (naturally not the right string guages) this would be a very cool looping instrument be Lap, Console, Pedal or not. I have a real hankering for an eight string console at this point (want those bass notes) When you think about it how nescessary are those pedals after all didn't the old Texas guys like Herb Reminton get by without the pedals and they got a lot out of those consoles too. Just for fun heres a link I stumbled across in my travels http://www.hsga.org/membersrecordings/MembersRecordings.htm lots of Hawaiian Lap and Console Steel -----Original Message----- From: William Walker [mailto:billwalker@looppool.info] Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2004 4:45 PM To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com Subject: RE: pedal steels/ lap steels I have been playing lap steel in a variety of tunings for many years, and I too employ the faux pedal steel technique of reaching behind the bar and pulling a string sharp, that Bruce mentioned. Its pretty difficult if you use heavy gauge strings like I prefer, so you might try this technique with a slightly lighter set, to begin with. Another cool technique that achieves similar results involves diagonal bar placement to create suspensions. Bob Brozman is a master at this. Try it on adjacent strings (like the 1st and second, or the 2nd and 3rd string in a DGDGBD,OR DGDGBbD tuning). The great thing about the lap steel is you can get started so cheaply. Another cool moderately priced one is the Chandler, however, be wise and pay more for the humbucking pickup model, as the single model sounded a bit shrill and noisy, particularly for the signal processing freaks amongst us that deal with accumulated signal path and gain stage noise. A Few years ago I bought a chambered body lap steel made by Bill Asher, a Ben Harper Model. These are expensive these days and I got it relatively cheap, but this is an amazing sounding guitar for the serious player who perhaps has owned good vintage laps (Ricky, National, Fender) but found them to unreliable and finicky for live playing. Like every instrument I own, I had to sell some other instrument to be able to afford it. hey Kim, is this off topic enough for you? he he Bill