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> Ah, Brian Jones Syndrome...not a bad condition to have! > As for Mahavishnu, they were always bigger than mere technique, for me. I loved the compositions, most of them. How many people can ROCK AT 11/4?? (LOL) Well, it's a different genre (not jazz/rock), but Rush, Yes, and Dream Theater have done a pretty damn good job at playing the heavey stuff in odd time signatures...especially DM. But, I agree, Mahavishnu is amazing...got all their stuff in my collection. Ever listen much to Larry Coryell? > Those cats could. All day. Still holds up for me... To this day, I can even hum you John's solos, because in spite of their sheer speed, there was a certain beauty to a lot of them. The songs play in my head, still, and if you're gonna have a song stuck in your head, you could do a lot worse than "Birds of Fire." Yours in Lenny White (another fine drummer), Tim If you like that old McLaughlin stuff, you should check out his "The Heart of Things" and "The Promise". On the Promise, the song Jazz Jungle is out of this world...in fact, John has described this as his idea of jazz fusion. Kris -----Original Message----- From: "loop.pool" <looppool@cruzio.com> Sent: Feb 4, 2005 12:02 AM To: "LOOPERS DELIGHT (posting)" <Loopers-Delight@loopers- delight.com> Subject: ELP and shredding I recently heard "In the beginning" after a long hiatus. What a beautiful song, even if it was atypical of ELPs output. I loved that group and saw them a couple times but I have to say that revisiting most of that material it just hasn't aged well for me, personally. At the time it was virtuosic music that was really impressive. I remember distinctly though, my brother Bill and I going to see an ELP show at Winterland and there was this band called the Mahavishnu Orchestra opening up for them. This was a few weeks before their first record, Inner Mounting Flame came out and I remember so vividly looking over and seeing my brother Bill, as the only standing member of the audience with his mouth literally hanging open 30 seconds into the first song before I realized that I too, was standing with my mouth hanging open...........we were the only ones in the audience who seemed to be having that reaction and I felt like my whole world changed in a heartbeat. Carl Palmer was a really, really accomplished rock drummer and in one quick pass of 16th note triplets across his huge vistalite drumset, Billy Cobham annhialated him and every other rock drummer I had ever seen or loved for sheer speed and power. He just ramped it way, way the fuck up and it was amazing. It's interesting, but for what incredible missionary zeal I had for jazz fusion in those early days, I find that it no longer holds my interest, but I think sometimes that is what happens in the life of a musician...............frequently we go through a phase were sheer viruosity blows us away and inspires us to work our asses off on technique, but it all ultimately becomes a means to an end: the ability to express oneself with one's chosen instrument. Speed and technique now mean very little to me unless it serves the composition and the music (which frequently it doesn't). Bill and I laughingly refer to the excesses of the NAMM show by calling it the: "Weedela weedela Thwakita wakita Thuggida buggida SHOW" because all the insecure guitar players all play 'weedela weedela' arpeggios as fast as they can at every guitar booth all the insecure bass players play 'thwakita wakit' popping and slapping as fast as they can and all the insecure drummers play ' thuggida buggida' triplet 16th rolls at every drum booth. Me, I specialize in playing a whole lot of instruments I can hardly play in front of live audiences............shamelessly........................LOL.. .........................I should probably pay more attention to the shredders for the sake of my audiences. rick