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this reminds me of a quote from the Pink Floyd´s
Biography.Back in the Syd Barrett days when he
darkside,they would get together and rehearse a new
piece called "have you got it yet?" so there you had
the guys sweating trying to following him,and they
would stop him to clarify the chords everytime over
again, but he´d change them again everytime they
played it,and they were all getting pissed off until
Roger Waters realized the bastard wasn´t that crazy;-)
L.a
--- "Hartung, Kris" <kris.hartung@hp.com> wrote:
> >"[Snip]... Only most musicians are hardly able to
> play like that and
> >claim that the public wants some ABACA...
> structure... probably a
> >reminder of old dance styles and polite forms...
> and simply a help for
> >the memory... easy composing... ?"
> >
> >Probably true, though it strikes me as odd based on
> how my brain works
> >with music. I actually find it easier to compose or
> perform
> >non-repetitive free improv, rather than music with
> some structure.
> >Building structure based on rules seems like a lot
> of work!
>
> >>maybe you got me wrong here:
> a repetitive base certainly makes improvisation
> easier because you know
> beforehand what will happen, to some degree.
>
> Yes, I understand, and for me it is still easier to
> improv without this
> repetitive base. Because of all the jazz theory
> crammed in my brain, the
> framework ends up being a restriction. Hence total
> free improv, no
> rules, no repetive base, nothing....that is easier
> for me. And I
> quality..."for me" here. I'm not making any claims
> about anyone else's
> comfort level. Give me a repeating ii-V-I
> progression, and I'll burn
> myself out improvising over it for an hour...give me
> 3 hours of a blank
> slate, and I can create indefinitly.
>
> >>in Brasil and probably other "hot" cultures, also
> rock bands, a huge
> part of the performances are just in between
> composition and
> improvisation: the musicians know the basic melody
> and rhythm of a song
> and improvise its structure. This could hardly work
> without the ABA...
> kind of tradition.
>
> >>to create a composition, repetition also helps.
> sure its more work
> than an improvisation, but try to remember a
> composition that never
> repeats!
>
> That would be difficult indeed! I've never played,
> as a cover, any of
> my past truly improvised songs. Just sitting down
> and transcribing the
> notes and movements would be so arduous that it
> would render it a
> pointless activity for me,.
>
> >The structure usually becomes a psychological
> inhibitor for me,
> >stifling creativity and freedom of expression. In
> fact, I feel more at
> >ease with myself as a musician and in tune with the
> flow of things when
>
> >I pick up my guitar, randomly pick a note on the
> fret board, and start
> >playing as if I were having a conversation or
> telling a story to
> >someone....nothing really repeats...mostly notes...
> maybe an occasional
>
> >dyad or triad to make a point, etc. It all depends
> on what you want to
>
> >say. I like that looping that sort of thing for
> about 2 minutes, then
> >having a conversation with myself in
> parallel....complementing the
> >first version of the story with a parallel version,
> which ends up
> >creating a whole new story.
>
> > >yes, thats of the kind I am talking about. It
> seems to me that for
> most musicians this is somehow "to easy" to do, so
> they dont see any
> value.
> but its what a huge part of the TV watchers are
> looking for: talk shows
> where they can see any kind of people improvise
> express spontaneously.
> So why would they not be able to follow your
> talking?
>
> Exactly! I think "too easy to do" in this context
> is a relative term.
> Because there is a difference between just sitting
> down and playing
> random notes (like the goo goo gaa gaa of an infant)
> and actually
> spontaneously creating a meaningful composition.
> Some people don't see
> the value because they and we are comparing apples
> and orange. Heck, if
> it was just sitting down and playing random notes
> with no taste or
> meaning, I could have done that when I was 12 years
> old, the year I
> started playing guitar....better yet, when I was 8
> years old and just
> banging on the instrument for fun! :) You may be
> right...if the story
> is there, folks will follow it. But sometimes it's
> not the story that
> attacts the common listener, but the harmonic
> structure. I can tell a
> story that is completey atonal, and that is not
> appealing to everyone. I
> can also tell a story that is very "pretty" and
> melodic. That seems to
> attract a lot of people. I can see it in their faces
> and eyes when I
> play and watch them...it's like an experiment.
>
> >>it becomes a lot more interesting if two or more
> musicians talk
> together and sometimes coincide marvelously and
> sometimes have to deal
> with clashes.
>
> True enough.
>
> >>As Keith Jarret is a genious in interpretation, he
> also filled the
> operas with his free improvisations, but if somebody
> only plays such
> impros, he has a hard time to get jobs, right?
>
> And Keith went on a whole tour with nothing but free
> improv...no sheet
> music or preconceptions, nothing. He just sat down
> and played. I have
> an interview of him describing this. Apparently, the
> crowds were a
> little uneasy with this approach at first, but it
> was apparently
> successful. Another example is Chick Corea and
> Bobby McFerrin....they
> also toured and did a lot of free improv that turned
> out quite well.
> Now Cecil Taylor is a different story. Whereas Chick
> Corea and McFerrin
> may appeal to the stereo-typical jazz enthusiast,
> Taylor is in a
> different category. It is his choice. Nothing
> obligates us to make free
> improv music that appeals to the populus. If
> someone wants to appeal to
> an elite crowd, so be it.
>
> Music producers say there is no public for this.
> When we play for them,
> they are fascinated. But they want to have granted
> what they buy and
> sell: a song that people can remember and a demo
> that contains exactly
> what you are going to do. The "what if you have a
> bad day?" thing.
> (but what do they do if a talk show master has a bad
> day?) I think they
> just did not grab it yet... once musicians give more
> value to their
> instrumental conversation ability and the public
> realizes what music can
> be about, producers will hire us. (not that this
> would be the aim of
> this mail...)
>
> Kris
>
>
www.luis-angulo.com
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