RE: zen and the fluent music

["Hartung, Kris" <kris.hartung@hp.com>]

I don't, I only assert it out of skeptical desperation.

...heh heh, you're gonna try that skeptics paradox on me, eh?...the
whole how do you know you know and how to you know you don't know bit.
I've been down that route. Seriously, however, the answer to this, also
codified in classic Greek and Roman skeptic text (which I happen to be
re-reading now for the fun of it...the works of Sextus Empiricus), is
that that the proclamation of lack of knowledge only applies to a
sub-set of areas of human thought, claims about the existence of an
un-perceived reality being one of them. No classic skeptic doubts the
common place things in life.  So to re-phrase my claim below, we don't
know jack shit, namely knowledge of things about which we are not
equipped, intellectually or biological, to make certain judgments.

Kris
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Larry [mailto:larrytremblay@carolina.rr.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 12:49 PM
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: zen and the fluent music

> Re: "we don't know jack shit, so we make it up."

Um, so how do you know this? 

----- Original Message -----
From: "Hartung, Kris" <kris.hartung@hp.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 8:50 PM
Subject: RE: zen and the fluent music


> About the notion of causality,   I did not mean to say that Bateson
believed 
that all things were causal.  Not at all and thanks for all the accurate
refutations of that idea.  No,  what I meant was that he said that
because of the limitations of our neurophysiology that we are forced to
make causal maps of reality....................or at least binary maps.

I followed you on this Rick, and agreed, but on a different set of
premises that did not include the Heisenberg Uncertainly principle.  I
guess the expanded thesis is that we are forced, not to make just causal
maps of reality, but to make maps of reality, in general, whether they
be causal, a-causal, idealistic, neutral, skeptical, etc. - because of
the limitations of thought, perception, observation, etc.   Since we
can't tap into that unknown with anything but speculation, we are forced
to create maps or models.   I think we are in violent agreement here!
Moral of the story is....we don't know jack shit, so we make it up. :)

[snip]

> Okee dokee,  I'm well aware that I'm just too fucking chatty on here
at times and write too much. If anyone is still with me here, I thank
them profusely for letting me muse a little.

Same here....me talk too much.

By the way, Mathias, thanks for the suggestion about using Feedback
more. I tried that it is produced some suprising results. It forced me
to keep things fresh...normally it is easy to get lazy and start
admiring your own loops, noodling around with things over them,
etc....but in this case, all of a sudden your loops are disappearing
before you ears and you have to keep creating more stuff!  Keeps you on
your toes!

Kris