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Re: DRIVE the LOOP or be DRIVEN?

yes Live 5 does a better job of varying the sample rate without change in pitch WAAAY better than logic does. but it does not do any tempo interpreting itself.
logics interprreter is blowmind. if i really want to setup a computer onstage for the interpretation, all i have to do is get an Alesis D4 andx it would translate any analog pulse from a trigger on a drum to any midinote i desire. this can then be sent to logic and voila i have midiclock output following my drummer.
but alas i dont have the processing power to run both logic AND Live5 (which is what this is all for as i want to trigger samples and basslines and and have them follow the bands timing)
logic does not do this very well and i was force to buy Live5 as i could assign any sample to be triggered externally from any button on my FCB1010.
plus the added benefit of samples not deteriorating with moderate changes in tempo.

i guess it could be done and have logic drive the tempo of Live5 internally but something tells me its not the safest thing to rely on in a live situation u know what i mean?

Adrian Bartholomew
8439 Lee Blvd
Leawood, KS 66206
(913) 660-6918

On Nov 18, 2005, at 5:42 AM, Per Boysen wrote:

On Nov 17, 2005, at 20:59, Adrian Bartholomew wrote:

what i have wanted for a long time is a hardware version of this that could work on analog pulse input instead of midi.
this would enable my drummer to DICTATE the tempo.
it worked in my studio on a prerecorded piece driven by a drummer playing midi pads so i dont see why the same logic would not work with different input types. same thing really.

"logic audio" algorithm, non midi trigger inputs.

If you care to set up a computer on stage the software Circular Logic seem to do that i real-time. Below I'm pasting in an earlier post to this list by the application's developer Michael Stauffer, so you can read up for yourself and eventually follow the links to watch the demo movies.

Regarding the tempo track and re-clocking functions of Logic I have used them quite successfully for recorded audio, but I wouldn't even think about trying it out for a live audio input. Actually I have found, when producing recorded music, that I get better tempo sync in Logic, to a recorded piece of music, when listening and simply draw the tempo curve on the screen exactly the way I would have played it if I was a drummer. Now I'm even a lousy Virtual Drummer, so this method takes a lot of time. But it's better because you can regain a little of what is lost in any tempo following algorithm: the human perception and implementation of gestures (that's where the fun is IMHO). Sometimes it feels good to bring up the tempo map just a little bit before the recorded live audio goes up in tempo and vice verca - only to balance the never ending interplay between DRIVING and BEING DRIVEN so it kind of creates a "dialogue" between the recorded audio and whatever is happening in Logic (the stuff we're "syncing").

BTW I presume Live5 does this syncing up midi to recorded material better than Logic at the moment.

Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
www.looproom.com (international)
www.boysen.se (Swedish)
--->  iTunes Music Store (digital)

On Sep 14, 2004, at 19:33, Michael Stauffer wrote:
Hey Griff,

I'm the developer with the Circular Logic software InTime. Yes, you can
set InTime up to follow a live drummer, either by using mic's and
audio-to-midi software, or by using relatively inexpensive drum
triggers - there's a discussion about setting up InTime with a drummer on
our site:

As for Live, I've been messing with it myself for doing the kind of
tempo-changing live-looping you're talking about - really cool software.
The InTime video demo on our site actually uses Live to playback loops
with tempo-changing while I play guitar:

You've probably read already in this list that the setup for remote
control in Live is awkward in some ways, and I recommend using Control
Aid to simplify any midi-trigger setup you use.

Ableton Live will do all the time-stretching, really nicely, like you
hope, but there are two catches when using it with something like InTime

1) Live doesn't get the "warp points" (the sync points) of a loop
correctly when the loop is recorded while the tempo is changing. So, if
you record while InTime is changing the tempo, the loop doesn't play back
in sync after you've finished recording it. I've tested this problem by
using sources of tempo change other than InTime, and it's an oversight in
Live's programming. It should be relatively easy for them to fix - since
Live always know the tempo and the location of the beat during recording,
it should be able to set the warp points using this information. Instead,
after you record a loop while the tempo is changing, Live seems to treat
it as a loop with overall steady tempo, and thus gets the warp points
wrong. I've told Ableton about this problem, but if you were also to let
them know that this is a drawback for you, it might help speed them along
their way to fixing it. :)  I posted a message about this in the user
forum a couple months back if you want to look at it in more detail, or
just ask me. It's pretty easy to workarond this, though - you can setup a
midi trigger to disable/enable InTime's tempo-tracking, then when you
want to record a loop you first disable the tracking so that InTime runs
at a steady tempo, then reenable it when you want to jam and have the
drummer control the tempo.

2) Live averages the incoming midi clocks over about 2 beats, so its
response to tempo changes from InTime is somewhat dulled, but still very
functional, as you can see in the video demo on our site.

InTime for Mac OS X is still in public beta, but I'm readying it for
release as we speak and it will be available soon.

Let me know if you have any other questions.