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Wow, what an interesting thread Ted has opened for us….. It again opens up for discourse and debate the questions of not so much “how we do what we do”, but “why we do what we do”. I am a musician. I am very proud of the fact that I make a (comfortable) living doing what I love to do. I don’t really consider myself so much a “looping musician” (although I use looping extensively) any more than I consider myself a “jazz musician” (although I do tend to play quite a bit in that idiom). I am a bass player although I introduce myself simply as a musician. And, as a bass player, my biggest musical influences are not Jaco and Stanley, but Miles Davis and Igor Stravinsky. So, I am a looping jazz bassist currently playing country with some icons of that genre (oh, and yes, even using loops in that situation!). I prefer to see myself simply as a musician. And as a musician I make the best with what I have. My music would not be all that different should I be using an EDP and bass guitar or a coconut shell, some aluminum foil, kite string and a ball point pen. I am a solo bassist as well. In that capacity I use loops the most. Like Ted, I have spent that past year or so really trying to downplay the “reliance” on loops in my music. My goal has been to focus on the music I play and not the technology I use with it. I try to make my looping interactive with my playing; in fact, I feel most successful when one cannot discern between the looped and played parts. I have learned to use short loops which I bring into(and then back out of) a composition as an integral part as opposed to the loop being the “starting point” of a piece, or the MAIN FEATURE of a composition. In the process I have tried to both be a better musician and a more “discerning” loopist. Limiting how I use loops, and fx processing as well—I use only a spring reverb for fx, --has actually enhanced what I do musically. I suppose I am fortunate to have had, and to have, a musical identity outside of looping. This makes scaling back the technology and concentrating on the physical act of “playing” and instrument easier (and before the flames begin let me just say that I have no fear nor prejudice about technology, but do feel there is a difference ‘tween programming and playing. While both require requisite skills—altho those with no requisite skills can, and often do, excel at either—playing often (in the best of circumstances) also possesses a certain, for lack of a better word, pathos which programming cannot. For me it is that I do not want to be a “one-man-band”. I do not want to fill every sonic nook and and cranny or have a seemingly infinite number of sonic/fx/routing possibilities. I like the limitations of wrangling sounds from a single instrument which sounds like a single instrument (and that being, of all things, an acoustic instrument). I use looping as an integral part of that sonic picture; rarely to create a static event which is played over, but rather a series of calls and responses which are played with and to. I also make no qualms about playing structures which are severely “in” (as opposed to being “out”). Although I do have a background in experimentalism and the “avant”, I tend to be compelled to explore more “traditional” compositional forms. I find using loops in this way to be even more challenging than doing the almost clichéd experimental-looping schtick. And again, before the flames begin---artists create, exploring whatever form they choose, from (more than any other reason) a compulsion to do so: because they have to do so. Whatever that compulsion is with you, then by all means do it with all of the power and passion you can muster. But to play music, whether that be “inside” or “outside, merely because it is easily done with the technology you have at hand…or because others are doing it…is a great waste of time and effort. But, that is just me. One thing I was really hit with at the Y2K5 Festival in Santa Cruz was just how diverse, and creative, all we loopsters are. And, in all this creativity and diversity the question is stilled begged, “is this an art form?” I am not sure it really qualifies as such. It is an approach, a technique, and as such one which is manipulated in a thousand different ways by different artists. Is it new and novel? Well, we all know it is not (yet, in the greater timeline of musical evolution it is certainly a discipline which is still very much in its’ infancy). Even so, the “technique” of looping has and will continue to permeate the boundaries of pop music…which is not really so surprising since the use of loops in audio production has been a mainstay technique for decades. So what of the “live looping” movement, the “loopfests” and even this list…are any of these such a bad thing? I sometimes have wondered if naming a show a “looping show” does not somehow limit the performance, or at least the audience. Yet, I also applaud the efforts (and do help to promote these events). I do regular solo looping shows (3-5 a month), and I used to include a little “explanation” of how looping works if only to thwart any possible audience misconception of me using “canned” tracks. Some of these are gigs that are similar to the experience which Per described. I have given up explaining things. I have learned not to underestimate the audience; not in their ability to comprehend a performance, nor in their willingness (or, in fact, desire) to be challenged with new music outside of what their preconception of music might be. I think that often times we as performers do underestimate our audience. This is a big mistake. At my shows, I have found that while the audience may not truly understand the method of looping, they are sharp enough to “get” the process…and appreciate it as well (sans explanation). Yes, there is a great deal of “preaching to the choir” in all of this, but often you have to talk to those who are willing to listen. I am sure there will come a time when looping is not such an exotic thing as to even warrant being labeled. Of course, by then there will be a lot of crappy looping going on as well. (as Mark pointed out) In the meantime, I welcome anything which gives exposure to “what we do”…. Which leads me back to “playing”. Learning to play an instrument is learning to speak with the instrument…and this has nothing to do with speed, chops or the inevitable “wank-a-thonics”. I know quite a few folks who can “get around” on an instrument (usually a guitar…), yet few who can actually “play”; who can speak thru their instrument and actually have something to say (and, BTW, Ted, you can play....) What good is looping a sound if you have nothing to say with it? >From all of this we share some common goals. We want to be heard. We >want the process, the techniques and technologies, to be recognized, and we want those using these techniques and technologies to be recognized. We want new and improved hardware and software…we want new toys! (which, when you think about it is coming about—perhaps not to the configuration of everyone’s “dream looper”—and the introduction of several new looping devices in the past year or so MAY have come about, at least in part, do to the open discussions of this list…and likely as well due to some of these “LoopFests”). I play solo bass by default. I never wanted to do that. I used solo bass playing as a way of learning more about music vis-à-vis my instrument (I found that I could play basslines with a deeper groove and conviction if I new the melody very well, if I understood the functions of the harmony and why the rhythm worked…so I learned to play all of these things). Looping came as an extension of this and grew into something which is an integral part of my own music-making. Yet, I try for it not to be the main focus, for the music itself is the focus. Playing solo with loops is a difficult bit; it is difficult for the “magic” to happen. For me, music really happens in the dialogue between the players. And it is precisely this “private conversation”, to which we make the audience privy to, which the audience finds to enticing. It is hard to do this as a solo player. I find one thing very mono-dimensional at “loop-shows”: the plethora of solo acts. I would really like to see folks using looping in ensembles (and not ensembles where everybody is looping—especially not all at the same time!), but in ensembles where music is being made and looping is an integral part of that process. In all the “looping Festivals” I have performed at I have tried to instigate such events. At Y2K5, Behrnard Wagner and myself performed an impromptu looping duet (without sync) that came off quite well. Ok…so enough of my babbling now. I guess that I too missed the looper’s pow-wow at NAMM this year…but only because I could neither drive nor walk. For what it is worth, Ted Killian is on of my 5 favorite doofus guitarists of all time……. Max