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My guess is never. The looperlative isn't a product made by a huge corporation, it's a labor of love by a single developer. The only way you could make a box like this for that money would be if you did the manufacturing overseas and ended the personal support and upgrades that Bob supplies. I think the looperlative is worth what it costs. I'm just not sure if it's worth that *to me* based on how I make my music. Mark __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com