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I think you can get too close for comfort, Mark. This is why I replaced my 15 space rack (which I had two years ago) with a laptop, and spend over $1000 on some really good VST effect software. . I've never owned an Eclipse, but I've owned other high end processors, and I can't tell a lot of differentce in the quality of effects between the hardware and software (with a good 24 bit audio interface). It is so close for me that I am mostly software now. I have two things that should be shipped to my doorsetp any day now...a Fireworx and Reakor 5. I'll let you know how it goes. I think once I have Reaktor and I load it and my other high end VST effects into MAX/MSP, I will have reached the top of Maslov's Triangle in terms of VST effect actualization! Basically, I'll be using MAX/MSP to run Reaktor 5, PSP84, PSP42, Cycling 74 Pluggo AND Hipno, Antares Filter, Space Effect, and a about 50 other free effects that do amazing things. I have a hypothesis or two as to why hardware manufacturs aren't shaking in their boots: 1) Some of the smart ones are already creating VST or other software based versions of their effects (Lexicon, Eventide, etc), so they are planning ahead. That is the smart thing to do, based on changing trends in the marketplace. In fact, if you've noticed, many hardware effect manufactures are creating hypbrid systems that plug into your computer with USB so that you can program them (Muse, Pod XT Pro, etc). The transition to computers and software is occuring gradually. 2) Using VST effects for our precious sound systems is analogous to the folks in the corporate world who made the transition to a paperless environment. The old generation has a hard time elminiating the hardcopy notes and printouts in their file systems...yet the new generation of folks are completely paperless. Are paper companies and printer companies nervous? Hell yes, which is why they keep innovating their products to do other things besides print on paper. Hence, many companies haven't felt the hurt yet because they are still relying on the sentiments and buying potential of an older generation of users. That will change inevitably. 3) It's all still reletivelly new, and no one has commoditized the technology in a way that has occured with Windows, the PC or Mac brands, Word processing software, finance software, etc. I think the technology will evolve to the point to where there are a few tried and true tested systems that hit the sky in terms of mass marketability and trust. Once that occurs, the skeptics will jump on the band-wagon. There are other possible explanations, of course.....I'd be interested in hearing other hypothoses. In general, I am a technological evolutionist when it comes to this topic. If we take a look at the history of technological innovation, these patterns and awkward transitions of moving from hard to soft, manual to automated, fast to slow, etc, etc...pop up over and over again. I see know reason why music technology should be ammune to this historical trend. I think it not a matter o if, but when. Kris ----- Original Message ----- From: "mark sottilaro" <zerocrossing2001@yahoo.com> To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com> Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 2:20 PM Subject: Re: Loop effects: Can software be as good as good hardware? > Well partially I was thinking that most of us with > pro-sumer level audio interfaces wouldn't get the same > high quality output that a dedicated machine might > get. I could be totally wrong though, which is why I > asked. If you're truely saying that for the price of > a laptop (to use me as an example) ($1400), audio > interface ($200) and Reaktor software ($300) I'd get > something on par with an Exclipse, well then I'd be > shaking in my boots if I was a hardware manufacture. > > M > > --- Bill Fox <billyfox@soundscapes.us> wrote: > >> mark sottilaro wrote: >> >> > All this talk about Eclipse/Fireworx vs. >> Max/Reaktor >> > made me think, surely dedicated hardware must >> sound a >> > lot better, no? Perhaps software is way more >> flexible >> > but is it as good? If all you got from hardware >> was >> > lower latency I'd imagine ebay would be flooded >> with >> > effects processors to the point people couldn't >> give >> > them away. I'm excited about what my humble laptop >> > can do but will it rival even my modest Lexicon >> MPX1 >> > in terms of sound quality? >> >> Unless I'm not correctly understanding your >> question, it seems to me >> that you're asking about audio quality. This seems >> like an odd >> question, if it isn't a troll. ;-) Considering all >> of the applications >> a computer can do: play CDs, play DVDs, run >> sequencers like Sonar and >> ProTools, run Live, et al, audio quality shouldn't >> even be an issue >> unless an app is poorly written. Shouldn't you be >> asking about timing, >> latency, ease of operation? >> >> Cheers, >> >> Bill >> >> > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > >