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Looper's Delight
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Exellent review!! I'm having fun with my RC-50 and hope to have it on a gig next week! Keep in mind, i'm a regular vox and guitar singer songwriter, not an ambient instrumentalist guy so it's been interesting figuring out how to integrate this unit into my live act! Sean Mormelo www.seanmormelo.com www.myspace.com/seanmormelo EPK- www.sonicbids.com/seanmormelo www.CDbaby.com/seanmormelo ----- Original Message ----- From: "Buzap Buzap" <buzap@gmx.net> To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com> Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 5:53 AM Subject: RC-50: FIRST IMPRESSIONS > Hi Loopers > > I've received my RC-50 and have been playing with it. Here are my... > > FIRST IMPRESSIONS > =================== > > GENERAL LOOK & FEEL > Looks & feels rock solid. I like the red color, reminds me of the Sony DDII Walkman in the 80ies... :-) Pedals are bit too heavy to press, at least for looping. But I guess I can get used to that. Great to have so many inputs (Aux, ,Mic, Line) and also outputs! (main out + subout). Little strange thing: all my other gear is using Left channel for mono, RC-50 is using right channel. Not important though. What is really nice: buttons, knobs are really accessible. No triple-shift buttons etc. The screen display is bright and alphanumeric, no cryptic numbers. > > PLAYING THE BUILT-IN PHRASES > This is really where you see the marketing strength of Roland/Boss: They have some really nice and catchy patches installed on the first five slots. They are really cleverly addressing a large audience (not looping geeks like LD people ;-). I can imagine a guitar player stomping on the pedals and jamming on top of the pre-recorded loops. Actually, this is also what the RC-50 is addressing: it's less the avantgarde ambient musician but rather the main-stream guitarist who get's a nice play-along looper (but feel free to prove me wrong ;-). The sound quality is really superb, btw. Nice uncompressed CD-quality. (Somehow, _their_ demo patches do sound ok when changing tempo - unlike the "barbling effect" on tempo shifts experienced by people with their own loops, later on that). > Just some BASICS ahead: > PHRASE = what people would usually call a loop. The RC-50 can play 3 of them in parallel (multi mode) or sequentially (single mode). > PATCH= A set of three phrases - along with it's settings - is called a patch. > > LITTLE ANNOYING THINGS IN THE BEGINNING > If you want to play say PHRASE2, it's not enough to just press the pedal PHRASE2. Rather, you _select_ the Phrase you want to play/record/overdub and then you press the PLAY/REC/OD (overdub) pedal to really trigger. A bit contrary to my intiution: would have preferred the other way round: i.e. having one pedal to select the mode (Play>Stop, Record>Play, Record>Overdub) and 3xPhrase pedals triggering the rec/play/overdub. Another annoying thing is the "greenish yellow" overdub light which we will discuss later. The next totally confusing thing is the handling of time. > > TIME SETTINGS ON THE RC-50 > The first loops I've recorded, I was thinking "wait a minute, the loop is badly lagging behind". Then I realized I'd have to tweak with the time settings of the RC-50. Mind you: even though I've read ALL instructions days before carefully, I still found it confusing. How many musicians actually read the whole manual before using their gear? Some people reviewing the RC-50 complain that it has "latency of 1-2 seconds". I cannot imagine this to be true (though I haven't tested everything carefully yet). I suspect this is due to the time settings that are VERY complex. > So, here are the TIME SETTING TERMINOLOGY of the RC-50: > LOOP SYNC: When turning on loop sync, all loops start & stop at the same time, exactly the same length > LOOP QUANTIZE: Quantize according to Guide (approximates the quantized point, works really nice) > PATCH TEMPO: Is sort of the "global" tempo, you can set it with knob or tap tempo > GUIDE TEMPO: is the same as the patch tempo > PHRASE TEMPO (ORIGINAL): Each phrase can have it's own tempo > TEMPO SYNC: You can sync each phrase to the patch tempo > PHRASE TEMPO (REAL): can be either original phrase tempo or i.e. with tempo sync the patch tempo > GUIDE VOLUME LEVEL: The guide volume is not only important for the volume level but also defines if the guide is on or OFF. This is important for Loop Quantize (off: no loop quantize possible) or setting the Patch Tempo (off: first loop determines patch tempo). > It _is_ a bit complex in the beginning, right? ;-) > Btw, I didn't notice any hiccup (then again, I attribute all errors to myself currently ;-). The only thing I've noticed is that when you shift from REC to PLAY, it doesn't playback immediately but will be there on the next loop. No problem for me, though. > > MY FIRST LOOP: BLUES IN SINGLE MODE > Ok befor we get into stuff that doesn't work or is hard to accomplish - here is a little introduction to fast, first success. So, by now you might have realized that time settings are complicated. > So, this is my first successful loop: > - Connected & set all inputs/outputs I need > - Scroll forward until I have a patch that has not been recorded yet >(i.e. 10) > - Turn off ALL time settings, that is: > - Turn off the GUIDE VOLUME knob all the way down to OFF > (even if it's down: check it again, because switching patches could give it a different default value) > - Turn off LOOP SYNC > - For each Phrase(1-3): Turn off Temp Sync > - From this point on, I don't need to care about any tempo features or tap tempo bugging me > - Choose SINGLE MODE (watch that loop sync is still turned off) > OK, and now we go: I choose PHRASE1 and press the PLAY/REC/OD pedal. Recording some blues on the keyboard for a round. Now it's time for the B-Part: I press PHRASE2 pedal and I'm recording B-Part blues piano on PHRASE2. Pressing the PLAY/REC/OD pedal again puts me in loop playback - PHRASE2 only. Now it's time for some overdubs: I press PLAY/REC/OD again and overdub some vocals. (Eeeeehhh..... am I really overdubbing? see more on that later). Yes it works! :-) Nice quality. And now, back to PHRASE1, some overdubbing. And just for the heck: a C-Part on PHRASE3, why not? Ok so far, this was really fun and easy. I think I will use this feature more in future for some live jamming. > > let's get back to... > THE YELLOWISH GREEN BULB & GREENISH YELLOW BULB (PLAYBACK/OVERDUB) > One of the most unfortunate "features" (along with barbling tempo sync, lack of loop decay... etc) is the light bulb on the RECORD/PLAY/OVERDUB pedal. > RED BULB: means RECORD. So far, so good. > "GREEN" BULB: means PLAY. However, this is more of a "YELLOWISH GREEN" bulb. > "YELLOW" BULB: means OVERDUB. However, this is more of a "GREENISH >YELLOW" bulb. > So, I feel pretty stupid during overdubs because I wonder: "Am I really overdubbing or just wasting my time?". I guess I might develop more confidence after a while. > > MY SECOND LOOP: ORIENTAL 9/8 RYHTYHM WITH TEMPO GUIDE > Now, you might remember that Roland advertised the RC-50, boasting it's hundreds of rhythm patterns. I first thought, "what a gimmick". But after playing around with them a bit, I find them quite useful: If you turn up GUIDE VOLUME knob and press START GUIDE button, you will here some rhythm. Pressing the GUIDE EDIT and moving through the parameters, you can define the meter. And yet - you can even play 13/8 or 7/8 if you like :-))) After choosing the meter, you can tap the tempo you like or define the tempo by turning the knob. (Unfortunately, tempo is defined like i.e. 126,7 but manually you can only set [as far as I've actually discovered] 1-beat-steps rather than 1/10-beat-steps. This is bad for defining tempo later on. Also, turning on tempo sync during playback doesn't seem to work, but that's another story). Then you can pick one of various tasteful rhythm patterns. AND THEY ARE REALLY NICE! I mean, the first thing I often loop is something like a hi-hat or bass/snare drum. So, the RC-50 provides you with a good sounding, minimalist hi-hat or basic drum pattern that will not obscure your music - unlike that annoying tick-tack-tack-tack of most sequencers... :-) I was remember a jazz pianist who was fiddling around with an RC-20 during a jazz concert - and suddenly his metronome went on... tick-tack-tack-tack... > So, the GUIDE has been the most positive real surprise so far on the >RC-50 to me. I think I will really use the simple Hihat2 for synced loops. > So this is what I did: > - Choose a new patch and turn all the temp sync etc. stuff off > - Set up the GUIDE properly, turning the GUIDE VOLUME up > - Switch to MULTI MODE (stiill make sure that the damn loop sync is >turned off ;-) > - Check that the LOOP QUANTIZE light is turned on when I choose a phrase > And there we go: Let the GUIDE play 9/8 ryhthm (HiHat2) and play some oriental darbuka for 1 bar on PHRASE1. > Overdub additional percussion on PHRASE1. > At this point, it is convenient to turn down the GUIDE VOLUME because I have enough percussion orientation with my own loops. > However this is IMPORTANT: do NOT turn the GUIDE completely down to OFF. Rather, leave at least on "2". Otherwise, the LOOP QUANTIZE will not work! > > By the way > LOOP QUANTIZE > is really, really very nice :-) I have been so annoyed with Ableton Live on this: Let's say the exact loop point is 13,2seconds. > RC-50: If you press PLAY/REC/OD pedal somewhere around 13,2seconds (i.e. 12,8sec or 13,6sec) the loop will be quantized to the exact point 13,2sec. > ABLETON: Whereas in Ableton Live, hitting the button on i.e. 12,8sec >would result in perfect loop with 13,2seconds but if you are just a little bit too late (i..e 13,6sec), then you end up waiting until you get to the 26,4sec point. > This works really nice on RC-50 :-) > So, now I move on to PHRASE2 and record some additional patterns over 2 bars and some 8 bar melody on PHRASE 3. Needless to say, all the phrases are in perfect sync :-))) This is really fun. :-)) > I was first a bit disappointed that there is no "multiply" command. However, with the three phrases in MULTI MODE and LOOP SYNC, I think I can live with that. > Another comment on > LOOP QUANTIZE > In MULTI MODE, if you don't want to use a GUIDE but still have three PHRASES in sync. You can turn off all tempo settings (including Guide) but just turn on TEMPO SYNC for all three phrases. (Make sure it's a "fresh" patch, though!). In this case, the first phrase defines the PATCH TEMPO. When you select the next loops for recording, LOOP QUANTIZE light should light up. And there you go: Record three loops in perfect sync :-) > But: DON'T EVER MESS WITH THE TEMPO. You (or at last I ;-) will not be able to get back to your original tempo. So, in order to avoid this, the best thing is to re-assign the TEMPO PEDAL with a different function (i.e. CURRENT PHRASE REVERSE, OVERDUB MODE, ...). > > Then, I'd like to push things farther and do some > SWITCHING BETWEEN PHRASES > Actually, when I first read about the RC-50, my hope was to be able to >use it much like the "scenes" in Ableton Live: That means you have set of loops (RC-50: 3 phrases) you are playing simultaneously (RC-50: phrases in multi mode) and you want to another set of loops (RC-50: patch). So... this works... kind of.... but not the way I had in mind.... So, the first thing - if you have your nice set of 3 phrases prepared and you want to had off for variations is to > first WRITE PATCH: if you don't write your patch, your loops will be gone after moving to another phrase. > second COPY PATCH: ideally, to the next slot, so you are able to use it >as a basis. > And here comes the first disappointment: IN ORDER TO WRITE PATCHES, YOU NEED TO STOP ALL PLAYBACK :-( So that means, if you want to do this during live performance, you have to bounce your loop to a second looping device (or long delay) before you can stop the RC-50. Not nice - I'll see if it will work practically. > So, in order to SWITCH PHRASES you have to keep the TAP TEMPO pedal (or was it the STOP pedal? I always keep mixing that up - the other is actually clearing your phrase, so be careful ;-)) pressed for >2 seconds. Then you are able to switch to the next/previous phrase using the first two pedals. Does it start playing the second phrase immediately? No, you have actually to choose a phrase/press play to really play the second patch (I haven't figured out yet what it is doing really exactly there). So this is the second disappointment: Switching between patches seems not to be a press-just-one-button thing. It would be actually great to swtich between patches (= set of phrases) just like you switch between phrases in the single mode. Instead it seems to take about 4 pedal pushes to get going at least. But maybe this process can be optimized. > So, here the third disappointment: Pressing PHRASE2+PHRASE3 together when switching to a new patch doesn't seem to start all 3 phrases at the same time. Again, maybe it is just me. At least on work-around is to set all three phrases to START SIMULTANEOUSLY (this is a default patch setting), then if you start one, all will start together. > Again, over time, I might find a better to optimize this. > > Ok, now let's look at the two most concerning aspects of the RC-50: Loop Decay (or lack thereof) and barbling tempo changes. > > LOOP DECAY > is not available. Period. There is something called FADE OUT. However, >I'd not like to disappoint you: fade out only means that when pressing STOP, the loop will be faded out instead of stopping abruptly. But his is just for stop and has nothing to do with decaying loops. > Just a hint concerning TERMINOLOGY: LOOP DECAY vs. DELAY FEEDBACK > While historically "feedback" may be a very common term, I think using "loop decay" might be a better term in this context,. For example, if you want to convince Roland to put in that feature in a future "RC-50XL", they might be more open to the idea of "loop decay" rather than "delay feedback" - which would help them to keep their Looper distinctly apart from their effect units. Just my thought on this. (don't want to discuss this here any further). > Back to FADE OUT, I think you can still use it in some creative way - especially keeping in mind you have three PHRASES that you can let FADE OUT one after another, retrigger etc. > > BARBLING "EFFECT" WITH TEMPO SHIFT > Yes this is by far the BIGGEST - the BIGGGEST - disappointment is this: When you record a loop and you play it at any other tempo rather than it's original tempo you will get a "barbling sound" (a bit like flanger) that will make your loop sound really cheap (much worse than low sampling rate). This has horrible effects (pun) if you want to: > - use TAP TEMPO to playback your loops along with the tempo of the band > - record several phrases of various length and TEMPO SYNC them > - use the RC-50 as a MIDI SYNC SLAVE to another unit. > There is _no_ half/double tempo button btw, playing half/double speed sounds just as bad. > I was actually not so disappointed because I've heard of this "feature" before getting my RC-50. So the work -around is I guess to > - _always_ use the RC-50 as MIDI MASTER > - _always_ use the same exact same tempo for all phrases of a patch (in multi mode) > - _never_ change the tempo of the patch > (I would even recommend reconfiguring the TEMPO pedal with something else like i.e. CURRENT PHRASE REVERSE) > - be _very_ careful with all your timing setttings (see above) > There is still some hope though: The "barbling effect" didn't sound so >bad with some phrases and worse with others. It would be worthwhile investigating which sounds are more resistant to tempo shift (possibly rhythm sounds or sounds with no vibrato?). If you can optimize it, you could at least find some sounds that will work for tempo shift. It might be also well investigating if certain frequency ranges are less affected or if adding i.e. some distortion to the original sound might disguise the effect. > > Something about > MIDI & FOOT CONTROL > Suppose you have a Behringer Footcontroller. As far as I can understand, you will be able to use two MIDI expression/volume pedals, i.e. for CURRENT PHRASE VOLUME & CURRENT PHRASE PAN. However, concerning your MIDI footswitches, there will be just ONE command. So, correct me if I'm wrong, but you'll just be able to use ONE footswitch on your WHOLE MIDI board, assigned to ONE RC-50 command only! This is actually really a joke... To be fair: I haven't tested any external pedals, so I might be wrong on certain issues like this (let's hope...) > There is some good news for FOOT PEDALS though: You can add 4 more additional regular footswitches to the RC-50. Plus: re-assign the TEMPO and UNDO pedal (though I would really think twice about removing the UNDO...). This would give you a pedal with 7+4=11 pedals which is not bad either. > > > SUMMARY > So to sum it up, if you can live with restrictions (no loop decay, time-shift problems), the RC-50 is really a GREAT unit that seems a lot of fun and that I will be using a lot. It really does have a LOT OF FEATURES like: > - 3 CD-quality stereo phrases, > - really nice LOOP QUANTIZE > - really big memory (24 minutes CDquality Stereo) > - "some" MIDI support, > - download/upload of loops via USB, > - useful GUIDE (useful sounds and odd meters), > - robust hardware > - lot of inputs/outputs > - and: everything is in a NICE COMPACT 7 PEDAL BOARD. > It might of course not replace a tool like several EDPs or a Looperlative (except compact design & memory). Yet, I think there is still a lot of depth that can be explored, i.e. using foot switches/MIDI pedals for controlling stuff, using the SUB OUTPUT to send a specific phrase to an effect board... etc. Another useful aspect (that has nothing to do with looping though ;-) is to prepare some background tracks on your computer, put them on the RC-50 via USB and play on stage to your background tracks. I think esp. people who are looking for "band in a box" like features might be attracted to it. > > As for future product releases, by just adding some minor improvements like decent real-time tempo shift and loop decay (also more midi support and maybe multiply command etc) RC-50 would become even more attractive and make also "hard-core-loopers" happy. Roland/Boss has proven that they can learn based on the improvements from RC-20 over RC-20XL to RC-50. A future "RC-50XL" could really become a killer looper. > > Personally, I'm quite new to this forum and not so experienced with various loopers. So you may need to judge for yourself if the RC-50 is something for you. Thinking about the affordable price, I would definitely recommend the RC-50 due to all the features you get in such a compact format. I believe with experience, we might still find more useful ways how to operate the RC-50. > The most important aspect to me: I'm really having a lot of FUN with this box!! :-)) > > Buzap > > Links: > RC-50 Manual: http://www.roland.com/manuals/en/index_alpha.html > RC-50 Homepage: http://www.roland.com/products/en/RC-50/index.html > -- > > > Echte DSL-Flatrate dauerhaft für 0,- Euro*! > "Feel free" mit GMX DSL! http://www.gmx.net/de/go/dsl > > >