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I'm able to build very complex "abstractions" with the provided objects and avoid third party externals or coding them myself....so far....but I do use VSTs as well....I think it will be a long time, if ever, till I find the need to write my own object in C.....the provided objects range from very simple (addition, subtraction) to very complex fft.....fundamental to not so fundamental at all..... >> >> In my brief experience with Max, it appears that you're given a set of >> very fundamental building blocks that you can combine in complex ways, >> but if you need a new block, you're writing an "external" in C code. >> True you can "do whatever you want" but the leap from drawing a patch >> to programming in C is huge. So if you're not a C programmer and >> don't >> like the sound of the objects available on the various Max forums >> you're stuck, no? Jeff Kaiser http://www.JeffKaiser.com pfMENTUM.com • AngryVegan.com