Great observation, this. thanks. Sometimes an improvised session will feel like total chaos, then upon listening to a recording later when it's not over-blasting my ears and I'm not involved in knob-twiddling, it sounds perfectly coherent. Daryl Shawn www.swanwelder.com www.chinapaintingmusic.com > I had the experience once of watching incredibally turbulent waves > crashing on rocks from very close up,extreme choatic randomnes.Then I > climbed up to the top of the cliff,from there it appeared to be this > very orderly predictable sequence , waves one after another with > easily described patterning. I realised that both order/chaos were > simultaneous,and which one I saw was literally a matter of perspective.