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I'm dealing with exactly this question just now. The owner of a modest coffeeshop, where I fully expected to play for tips, asked me "What do you charge?" It seems so incredibly arbitrary what I would choose to charge in that situation - as opposed to, say, a nice restaurant where there's obviously a good amount of money coming in and so I actually do ask for what I think I'm worth - that I was a little baffled. I really wanted to play there, mainly as I have friends in that city and want to present my stuff to them, and this sort of coffeeshop nearly always means playing for tips. I didn't want to offer to play for free in a situation where money is apparently typical (thus dragging down the local market - I was mindful of the discussion here!) - and didn't want to price myself out of the gig, so I ended up asking for about half what I'd charge a restaurant...and am still waiting to hear back from him. I'd love to know what other people do in a situation like this. You want the gig, and would take anything, but want to hit some mythical average you can only guess at. Daryl Shawn www.swanwelder.com www.chinapaintingmusic.com > Just curious friends, > so when you deal with club owners or venues how do you > determine then how much you should be paid,or how do > you figure out the economics of the city,town or venue > you are going to play beforehand?I know this is all > based on negotiation but where do you start and stop? > cheers > Luis > >