Re: Tuning guitar in fifths for wider orchestration options

[mark francombe <mark@markfrancombe.com>]

I DO see what you mean Per, and i have had similar experiences in regards to my Piano education. As a kid I was taught from age 4, reading the little black dots, playing the keys.. and learning scales. By age 9 I was grade 8 (UK levels thing... dunno what it means really) and COULD NOT IMPROVISE A NOTE... Found rock and roll, got a guitar, started teaching myself... improvising, and promptly forgot all my piano! ... and have many theory's as to the wrong way of teaching an instrument now...

BUT...

I must say that your response is a tad... um obscure... (and not a little patronising... altho dont mind me... I LIKE it... Im a brick).
I think for you to improvise truly with your instrument, you have to... er... be at one with its neck...(man) have some routes around it, that you don't "know to be true cos you have analyzed the structure of the tuning system" but "FEEL to be true, cos thats where your fingers go...!" 

Just cos I know that a note played 2 stings across and two notes up is an octave, doesnt mean that I play the same on the 3rd string as I do on the 1st... 

I suppose I play guitar based on what I read about Micheal Karoli from Can , his approach was to play free and loose, letting his fingers go where they will, but within the contraints of what his fingers had learned. I am not at all interested in the atonal scrabblings of free improv jazz guitarists, i think its boring, but to improvise freely without restrictions on melody and structure, but creating music WITH melody and structure, then I need my fingers to work faster than my brain... and my fingers do that... now... For me to start with a new tuning now, I could get some theoretical and tonal exitement from that, very much so... but it would be brain powered, not body powered.

But I DO want to try... maybe Im taking shit...!
Im gonna give it a go... I have a spare guitar, and Im gonna tune it to... what? 

What are the specific string tunings for this 5ths system...?

 Im gonna tune like that... and start recording... watch this space!!

mark

On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 12:18 PM, Per Boysen <perboysen@gmail.com> wrote:

Marc,

I think the guys that experiment with different tunings don't really
"think" the music as "an instrument". We rather think the the music as
the notes; I mean, according to a key, a scale (not "guitar neck"
scale but the real sounding scale, the vibreations) and a tonal
center. If you think music like that, all you have to do is to find
out "where on this new instrument are the octave, the fifth" etc etc.
Soon you're off playing your usual stuff with the new instrument's
special touch options.

To learn an instrument as "I put my finger down here to get this note"
is a mistake IMHO and I'm amazed that music schools still do that to
kids. You should learn instrument by first learning a melody of let's
say three notes. Then you find out how to play that melody on the
instrument.

Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
www.boysen.se
www.perboysen.com



On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 11:44 AM, mark francombe <mark@markfrancombe.com> wrote:
> I've been watching this tread with grrat interest, I think its amazing how
> so many of you have experimented with tunings, and have of course tried some
> things myself on spare guitars, for effects. (Like for example the tunings
> that Rick mentioned, about tuning the whole guitar to one note for groovy
> droning noise stuff etc).
>
> What really amazes me however is... do you guys reall RE-learn all your
> scales and chords for all these different tunings?  I mean, if you tune to
> this 5ths approach... how do you play a chord!!! Its taken me 33 years
> (since I first got a guitar) to learn a few girl guide chords, and a couple
> of bar chords.... one (ok two) scales, that I can slide up and down... but
> the thing that has stopped me REALLY getting into tuning is this... Do I
> really have to forget what I ever knew... and dedicate my life to a new
> tuning????
>
> I myself have been using baritone guitar for 10 years, with a A based
> tuning, this gives me the LOWS I need for bass parts, and I use a lot of
> pitch shifting, and can go high enough... but this is still standard tuning
> basically, just tined down a bit...
>
> Have to try out this 5ths thing
>
> m
>
> On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 1:14 AM, Charles Zwicky <cazwicky@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>>>
>>> Per Boysen wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Anyone here on the list having tried tuning a guitar in fifths for
>>>> wider orchestration options? Or even wider intervals? Would make sense
>>>> when looping to get lower bass and higher highs. I guess you have to
>>>> pick a custom string set for this.
>>>>
>>>> Greetings from Sweden
>>>>
>>>> Per Boysen
>>>> www.boysen.se
>>>> www.perboysen.com
>>
>>
>> I have been tuning in straight fifths for  the past 15 years or so....
>>
>> http://jpsongs.com/troubadortech/zwickrig.htm
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ...
>> http://www.zmix.net
>>
>
>
>
> --
> www.markfrancombe.com
> http://vimeo.com/user825094
> http://uk.youtube.com/user/markfrancombe
> http://www.myspace.com/markfrancombe
> www.looop.no
>

-- 
www.markfrancombe.com
http://vimeo.com/user825094
http://uk.youtube.com/user/markfrancombe
http://www.myspace.com/markfrancombe
www.looop.no