well maybe it is the punk D.Y.I. in me, but there ARE some credible musicians who have gone on the record stating they just PLAY. Sure they practice some stuff, but when they want to, they throw the book away and just see what happens. Not unlike the painter who takes the paint and throws it at the wall. In other words, "you don't hear what is in your head (or hands) until after it comes out! " And may I add that free jazz guitar or any free style music (or hockey!! LOL) is an acquired taste, and for most people (me included) it helps to dive in the deep end more than once, preferably with someone who can help show you what is going on.
just me 2 cents
Marc Marshall
"I am human, I am large, I contradict myself"
.....and then some 
--- On Fri, 2/27/09, Per Boysen <perboysen@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Per Boysen <perboysen@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Tuning guitar in fifths for wider orchestration options
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Date: Friday, February 27, 2009, 7:39 AM
Great post, Marc! You actually said what I was trying to say - "your
fingers have to be faster than your brain but your brain (and ears)
has to stay in command".
Sorry about appearing patronizing, even though talking to "a brick"
;-) That interpretation of my post reminds me that I need to work on
refining my English more. I guess my English fingers are faster than
my brain...
Greetings from Sweden
Per Boysen
www.boysen.se
www.perboysen.com
On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 1:02 PM, mark francombe <mark@markfrancombe.com>
wrote:
> I DO see what you mean Per, and i have had similar experiences in regards
to
> my Piano education. As a kid I was taught from age 4, reading the little
> black dots, playing the keys.. and learning scales. By age 9 I was grade 8
> (UK levels thing... dunno what it means really) and COULD NOT IMPROVISE A
> NOTE... Found rock and roll, got a guitar, started teaching myself...
> improvising, and promptly forgot all my piano! ... and have many
theory's as
> to the wrong way of teaching an instrument now...
>
> BUT...
>
> I must say that your response is a tad... um obscure... (and not a little
> patronising... altho dont mind me... I LIKE it... Im a brick).
> I think for you to improvise truly with your instrument, you have to...
> er... be at one with its neck...(man) have some routes around it, that you
> don't "know to be true cos you have analyzed the structure of the
tuning
> system" but "FEEL to be true, cos thats where your fingers
go...!"
>
> Just cos I know that a note played 2 stings across and two notes up is an
> octave, doesnt mean that I play the same on the 3rd string as I do on the
> 1st...
>
> I suppose I play guitar based on what I read about Micheal Karoli from Can
,
> his approach was to play free and loose, letting his fingers go where they
> will, but within the contraints of what his fingers had learned. I am not
at
> all interested in the atonal scrabblings of free improv jazz guitarists, i
> think its boring, but to improvise freely without restrictions on melody
and
> structure, but creating music WITH melody and structure, then I need my
> fingers to work faster than my brain... and my fingers do that... now...
For
> me to start with a new tuning now, I could get some theoretical and tonal
> exitement from that, very much so... but it would be brain powered, not
body
> powered.
>
> But I DO want to try... maybe Im taking shit...!
> Im gonna give it a go... I have a spare guitar, and Im gonna tune it to...
> what?
>
> What are the specific string tunings for this 5ths system...?
>
> Im gonna tune like that... and start recording... watch this space!!
>
> mark
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 12:18 PM, Per Boysen <perboysen@gmail.com>
wrote:
>>
>> Marc,
>>
>> I think the guys that experiment with different tunings don't
really
>> "think" the music as "an instrument". We rather
think the the music as
>> the notes; I mean, according to a key, a scale (not "guitar
neck"
>> scale but the real sounding scale, the vibreations) and a tonal
>> center. If you think music like that, all you have to do is to find
>> out "where on this new instrument are the octave, the fifth"
etc etc.
>> Soon you're off playing your usual stuff with the new
instrument's
>> special touch options.
>>
>> To learn an instrument as "I put my finger down here to get this
note"
>> is a mistake IMHO and I'm amazed that music schools still do that
to
>> kids. You should learn instrument by first learning a melody of
let's
>> say three notes. Then you find out how to play that melody on the
>> instrument.
>>
>> Greetings from Sweden
>>
>> Per Boysen
>> www.boysen.se
>> www.perboysen.com
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 11:44 AM, mark francombe
<mark@markfrancombe.com>
>> wrote:
>> > I've been watching this tread with grrat interest, I think
its amazing
>> > how
>> > so many of you have experimented with tunings, and have of course
tried
>> > some
>> > things myself on spare guitars, for effects. (Like for example
the
>> > tunings
>> > that Rick mentioned, about tuning the whole guitar to one note
for
>> > groovy
>> > droning noise stuff etc).
>> >
>> > What really amazes me however is... do you guys reall RE-learn
all your
>> > scales and chords for all these different tunings? I mean, if
you tune
>> > to
>> > this 5ths approach... how do you play a chord!!! Its taken me 33
years
>> > (since I first got a guitar) to learn a few girl guide chords,
and a
>> > couple
>> > of bar chords.... one (ok two) scales, that I can slide up and
down...
>> > but
>> > the thing that has stopped me REALLY getting into tuning is
this... Do I
>> > really have to forget what I ever knew... and dedicate my life to
a new
>> > tuning????
>> >
>> > I myself have been using baritone guitar for 10 years, with a A
based
>> > tuning, this gives me the LOWS I need for bass parts, and I use a
lot of
>> > pitch shifting, and can go high enough... but this is still
standard
>> > tuning
>> > basically, just tined down a bit...
>> >
>> > Have to try out this 5ths thing
>> >
>> > m
>> >
>> > On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 1:14 AM, Charles Zwicky
<cazwicky@earthlink.net>
>> > wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Per Boysen wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Anyone here on the list having tried tuning a guitar
in fifths for
>> >>>> wider orchestration options? Or even wider intervals?
Would make
>> >>>> sense
>> >>>> when looping to get lower bass and higher highs. I
guess you have to
>> >>>> pick a custom string set for this.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Greetings from Sweden
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Per Boysen
>> >>>> www.boysen.se
>> >>>> www.perboysen.com
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I have been tuning in straight fifths for the past 15 years
or so....
>> >>
>> >> http://jpsongs.com/troubadortech/zwickrig.htm
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> ...
>> >> http://www.zmix.net
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > www.markfrancombe.com
>> > http://vimeo.com/user825094
>> > http://uk.youtube.com/user/markfrancombe
>> > http://www.myspace.com/markfrancombe
>> > www.looop.no
>> >
>>
>
>
>
> --
> www.markfrancombe.com
> http://vimeo.com/user825094
> http://uk.youtube.com/user/markfrancombe
> http://www.myspace.com/markfrancombe
> www.looop.no
>
|
