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Re: OT The Sub Pulse was West African/African Diaspora rhythms: 3/4, 4/4, 6/8, 12/8

üddly enough, I am sure Monty Python would do a good job conveying what 
the sub 
pulse is. I did take thta trip to the bottom of the ocean and I did get a 
of the sub pulse. By the way, I also struggled with Einstein and then 
years I got it. The focus should be placed on experiencing, perceiving, 
than understanding. People who discover stuff in physics have a flash, 
they do 
not build theories like lego; that part comes after. Math was created to 
these illuminations to others who hopefully speak mathematics. The accent 
be put on getting it, having the same or a similar experience, recreating 
original illumination. So let's imagination some conditions which would be 
favorable to experience of sub pulse, let's be illuminated. Then we will 
go see 
what the girls are doing down there with my double.


----- Original Message ----
From: Mark Showalter <folkstone57@operamail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Sent: Mon, September 13, 2010 12:58:22 AM
Subject: Re: OT The Sub Pulse was West African/African Diaspora rhythms: 
4/4, 6/8, 12/8

> hey let's hear it.I am curious to learn. So is Mark he just has that 
> humor about him.

Very good observation Anthony & yes I am a big fan of British humor, 
Monty Python.

> Antony Hequet
> ***************************************************
> I really don't want to get you wrong (and please correct me if I'm 
> but what I am
> understanding about your stance here is that you seem to be 
> dismissively telling
> us
> that you don't understand a musical level of sophistication that is 
> by
> tens of thousands of groove musicians around the planet (whether they 
>use the
> term
> 'sub pulse' or not) and that you profess to have no desire to 
> educate yourself,
> or
> grow further as a musician, merely because it is a concept that was 
> not included
> in
> your entirely Euro-centric (albeit rigorous and valuable) education about
> musical styles.

Hm....in fact, I think what I was going for was that I am clearly ignorant 
many things, one being what a "sub-pulse" is & another example I gave of 
not having augmented sixths in my head, which I don't. As for 
"Euro-centric" I'm 
not exactly sure where you came up with that one from as I am a big fan of 
oriental/Indian music & rhythms & both Ravi Shankar & his daughter are 
musicians even though I have no problem admitting that I have a hard time 
getting their sound in my head as well because I simply don't understand 
even though I love the music. As for being "dismissive", that was not my 
intention. I was rather trying to avoid another flurry of emails about 
what a 
"sub-pulse" is because I have noticed a tenancy in these discussions to 
get so 
far off topic that I find it almost impossible to get any kind of idea of 
the discussion is really about. If you'd like to start an email about what 
"sub-pulse" is that would be great & I would welcome the chance to learn 
something new. My statement about several drummers/percussionists 
attempting to 
explain the idea to me & my example of the poor fellow who took the trip 
Albert Einstein was meant to illustrate my own current problem with 
understanding what my drummer/percussionists friends were trying to 
explain to 

> I certainly have respect for the 8 years you spent studying Harmony and 
> in a rigorous academic environment.

Thank you although it wasn't that rigorous actually. And my emphasis was 
& Composition, not Harmony & Melody.

> I just find it curious that you don't seem to have the same respect for 
> (or any other drummer/percussionist/arrangers) knowledge
> which has been accrued from 40 years of playing in popular styled bands 
>as a
> band leader,
> arranger, composer, producer and instrumentalist(33 of them as a 
> professional).

I don't recall making any statement that I don't have any respect for you 
or any 
other person's knowledge, as once again, I was pointing out my own lack of 
understanding. If you feel that this indicates me showing a lack of 
respect, I 
must admit that the connection escapes me entirely. BTW,Ringo is one of my 
favorite drummers, as well as Bill Bueford & Steve Gadd if this helps at 
Also, Nick Mason who as well as Ringo both of whom "float" better than any 
drummers I've ever heard. 

> I'm positive I could learn a thing or two from you about the things 
> you have so
> deeply studied and am eager to do so if the chance presents itself.

Happy to be of service at any time.

> I wonder why you don't appear open to knowledge  that I (or some other
> drummer) could teach you about the world of rhythm, conversely.

Again, this is not the case. I have been a teacher since I was around 17 
old & the core of being a teacher is learning. As Socrates once said when 
what all his wisdom had gained for him, he replied: " That there is so 
much that 
I do not know" .

> The concept of a sub pulse is a very simple one and can be demonstrated 
> easily with a few
> choice examples. This concept absolutely defines 

( I am not a big fan of "absolutes" as I have often found when someone 
uses the 
word that they tend to quickly find the word was ill chosen )

the way human 
> beings respond
> to
> syncopation on a neurophysiological level and is easily 
> demonstrable with sonic
> examples.

If you are saying that syncopation is a "sub-pulse", then it is not 
necessary to 
explain any further. However, I suspect it is not so simple an answer, no?

> I'd be happy to share it with you unless you feel your mind is closed.

Now who's being dismissive? 

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