question for tech junkies

[antonyhequet@yahoo.com]

Ok here it is.

I recently traded my analog board for a Yamaha DM1000VCM, so I could have 
more 
IN and especially more OUT buss aux direct OUT etc...
The idea was to have everything in the studio plugged in and then use the 
board 
as a patch with memory.
I got three cards: one mLAN (MIDI and audio firewire), one ADAT with 16 
channels, one analog 8 IN 8 OUT.

Now the first thing that happened is that the mLAN card was faulty. So I 
sent 
that back to Yamaha and am now waiting to get it back. This was supposed 
to be 
my way into the computer for recording in the studio, and most important 
in 
concert. The DM1000 is very compact so I imagined I would have it all:
- direct multichannel recording with one firewire cable
- call up patches for different looping configurations with a program 
change 
from a pedal
- basic compressor EQ and effects per channel.

Now I got the ADAT card for a low price and figured I would experiment 
with it 
too. The point is I could use my current RME Multiface interface to expand 
the 
number of IN OUT channels.

Getting to the point here, the mLAN let down got me thinking (I take it as 
an 
omen): why not can mLAN and buy one of these new firewire interfaces like 
the

Focusrite Saffire Liquid 56, and have more flexibility while keeping the 
Firewire (well plus two ADAT cables no big deal) simplicity.

Anybody have experince, knowledge or simply a solid opinion about the 
merits of 
mLAN versus this other approach. Basically the Saffire (or RME Fireface, 
or 
Multiface II) would have ADAT 2x8 going to the DM1000 thru the Yamaha ADAT 
board 
( 16 IN - !6 OUT), and firewire running to my computer.
I have no experience with firewire or mLAN because I was using a card into 
my 
PowerBook from the RME multiface. ADAT seems to be pretty reliable in the 
studio 
but I have no experience with ADAT on stage.

Here is how I see it : mLAN is simpler (although the Yamha software to set 
it up 
in the computer is rather obscure at first sight). ADAT + firewire gives 
more 
inputs and flexibility (the routing matrix) bit also adds complexity. 


I did a lot of head scratching yesterday just trying to get sound IN and 
OUT of 
the board plus RME inertface and audio Matrix despite the fact that I am 
pretty 
familiar with the matrix. By the way, how flexible is the Matrix on the 
Saffire 
Liquid 56. I read different things about it; the first release sounded 
pretty 
stiff but it probably has been improved in the meantime. Of course, I am 
really 
tempted to stick with my first idea because both in the studio and on 
stage I 
love a set up which I can just forget about so I can play it like one big 
musical instrument. I am looping acoustic percussion, electronic and 
sampled 
percussion, using synths with and without sequencers, and last but not 
least 
chapman stick, blues harp and voice (my main instrument)...

Anyway, anyone who is not dead of boredom reading all this: any 
contribution 
which may help me sort this out is most welcome.

Cheers mate, salut les mecs, ciao

Antony Hequet



----- Original Message ----
From: andy butler <akbutler@tiscali.co.uk>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Sent: Mon, September 13, 2010 1:15:25 PM
Subject: Re: OT West African/African Diaspora rhythms: 3/4, 4/4, 6/8, 12/8



Rick Walker wrote:
> 
>  Andy Butler asked
> 
> "Any examples to illustrate? "
> 
> to my observation:
> "In this case,   it can be a more flexible map to write 8th notes with 
>'swing' 
>over the top of them.
> 
> Yes,  specifically go listen to the tunes that swing from the Neville 
Brothers.
> Other examples, though generated entirely by drum machines are the 
>grooves
> from Garage/Two Step, the UK dance musics.
> 
> Andy said:
> 
> "Maybe this relates to the Eastern European notion
> of "short" and "long" dance steps. "
> 
> Actually, no, that's not what I'm referring to at all.
> Almost entirely,   short dance steps are in phrases of 2 sub pulse and 
>long 
>dance steps are
> phrases of 3 sub pulses.

I'd be thinking that "almost entirely" covers swing as well.
A uk dance genre seems as tightly defined as to be a single composition.

Neville Bros on Spotify
...and the Meters?

I'm indeed squirming at the generalisation about ethnic music :-)
Quite a lot of it simply doesn't relate to the recent Western
grid time idea.

It's a broad generalisation to say that swing *is* played at 67%.
(

ha...squirm 
So, we have 2 different note lengths normally at a ratio of
2:1 but on occasion known to become more equal, particularly as the tempo 
increases.

> 
> Andy also said:
> 
> "Actually the drummer I play with has been criticised at college because 
>his 
>swing wasn't bang on 66.7%.
> ( don't worry, I was able to re-assure him) "

> 
> What's important here for your drummer, probably, was that he could only 
>play
> where he played..................

I don't think so, if he was hearing triplet swing he'd lock into into it.
We're well practised at staying on the same riff and making the music 
really 
vary by changing the feel (with me on bass).
I think the college guy simply believed that swing had to be triplet.

> I've found that when playing 56%-60% swing that it's really helpful to 
>think 
>binarily
> in your fills  (playing only two notes coherent with the swing 
>percentage) 
>whereas when you play 64%70% swing that if feels better to play ternary 
>(triplet 
>8th notes)

:-) makes sense
It's nice to put theory to it.
Have to admit I do that stuff purely by ear,
so probably not very reliable.

I wonder if using a percentage is the best way to quantify?
Probably it does very well as long as the tempo doesn't vary.
( I'm not a fan of fixed tempo as such)

It would be equally interesting, perhaps, to have the swing settable as a 
fixed 
amount of time, either as a delay from the
50% point, or an advance from the 67%.




> Andy said,
> "neither "4/4 swing" nor "12/8" tells the whole story
> in every situation."
> 
> Actually from my experience 

So logical to conclude your experience doesn't cover "every situation".


>  I find 12/8 to be far to bland an unspecific a map in those musics 
>precisely 
>because it doesn't indicate any 'feel' or point out how the dancers 
>dance, 
>rhythmically.
> 


ok, I think this is the point you missed (and edited out more than once)

"4/4 swing" is just hopeless as a notation if the music *combines*
swung and straights.
..and it's not exactly brilliant for notating the second beat of a triplet.

here's an example (from the late eighties iirc)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6ZONZ_b7zs
(with a straight 8 variation in the tune near the end of the clip,
after the bit that really is in 4/4)

I have the scribbled score before me now, marked "4/4 swing feel" at the
top of the page (thus conveying *all* the info that writing in 4/4 swing
would convey) but written in 6/8.

As *all* Western notation tends to conceptually attach the offbeat to
the on-beat preceding it rather than the on-beat following it it's never 
going 
to be my ideal system. I don't see it as defining the feel, just an aid to 
learning the tune.


andy butler