Re: so long -- and further off topic.

[Paul Richards <paulrichard_rocks@yahoo.com>]

It's not a matter of standing up for human rights in China. I would like to see improved human rights in China & elsewhere but that's not the focus of the issue of manufacturing in China.

 

The movement over there happened over a period of time. I had been watching this phenomena as well as the other movement of IT jobs offshore by the large computer companies and software consulting companies.

 

The thing is, though, that Apple is an Amrican company. I don't see them moving their headquarters and executives over to China. They're living in the U.S. In the good old U.S. with it's infrastructure, safety, etc., etc. Not in China with it's crowds, questionable sanitary conditions, dubious food quality, etc., etc.

 

The people of the U.S. just haven't seen what the extent of the offshoring movement has been. It's not a central theme on the news. Politicians calm up about it mostly as the large corporations put them in office. And, it's not "the unions" either. Manufacturing in the union-free south have moved overseas as well.

 

Look at JC Pennys. Their clothes are manufactured so inexpensively that they can lower their prices across the board and still make money. This is not a surprise to me. Any goober can take a look at how clothes have degraded over the years no matter where they are purchased: i.e. cheap Chinese, et al products.

 

The point is that societies can't function without jobs for regular folk. The U.S is in for a very violent and unhappy future going forward.

From: Daniel Thomas <danielthomas4@mac.com>
To: Paul Richards <paulrichard_rocks@yahoo.com>
Cc: bill bigrig <billbigrig@yahoo.com>; "Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Friday, March 2, 2012 5:21 PM
Subject: Re: so long -- and further off topic.

FoxConn was reported to have around 400,000 people building electronic junk in China. And there are others. A lot of those jobs were positioned in the U.S. at one time. 

Here Here!!  bring the jobs back home and stand up for human rights at the same time!  Ah but its really complicated, isn't it. 

Are walmart crowding Americans prepared to pay for this?  --Its not just an American problem either.   Many rich and poor Euro countries on the same path.   

Note that Universal Audio,  venerable hand-built audio component builder's product line is now focused on "American" products that it builds in printed circuit board factories of China.   So are FocusRite, Lexicon and others.  Were they not -- they would all go belly up in a disappearing high end market.   

So, Its a complicated problem where any step winds up upon some poor family's toes.  Not sure we can ever retreat to pre globalization conditions or that we would want too.  But I certainly do think that, in the US at least, we have given our industrial base away-- all while trumpeting the rise of a service industry in America.  WTF?  We all gonna become bell hops?  The call center service industry jobs are mostly going to Bangalore-- the best hotels are their too.  

"Son, if you want to be a bell hop like dad..  Learn Mandarin." 

No matter what flag we fly-- We've all been sold down the river by fat cats. Shame on us.  Humanity can do better.

  

D

And how about some decent solder in guitar amp while we are at it. 

Daniel 

On Mar 2, 2012, at 1:51 PM, Paul Richards wrote:

OTOH, the main problem with companies like Apple, HP and all the rest is they are effectively dismantling the societal system that exists in the U.S. so that a few can be enriched in a massive way while millions become unemployed and/or underemployed.

 

FoxConn was reported to have around 400,000 people building electronic junk in China. And there are others. A lot of those jobs were positioned in the U.S. at one time. Of course, I won't mention that the country itself (China) is a Communist police state. So much for the Cold War. And of course, U.S citizens love of cheap Wal-mart, et al products is enriching a country that is ramping up their military & space capabilities to ultimately challenge U.S. hegemony (some may think this a good thing).

 

I wonder if there's some new direction/force at work in China currently at least as pertaining to musical products. I know Fender stated they moved the production of the Super Champ to Mexico due to their manufacturer getting out of the musical equipment manufacturing business.

 

And, I have two items on back order that keep getting delayed: A Peavey Vypyr Tube amp and a Fernandes guitar that have been pushed back to June 2012. Somewhat unusual.

 

P

 

 

 

From: bill bigrig <billbigrig@yahoo.com>
To: "Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Friday, March 2, 2012 4:40 PM
Subject: Re: so long

Very unfortunate, that incident in China. Many there have it better, many have it worse. We have practically zero control over how each factory is run by it's owner/manager. All we can do is pressure the people that work with these factories and hope for better.

 

 Back in the 1800s things weren't any different in this nation. In the late 19teens, the wobblies, (IWW union) were gunned down in public with ne'er a charge filed. Their gripe? Better working conditions in the logging camps, coal mines, and garment factories. In my state, (WA), Armisice day 1919, the American Legion had a parade in the town where I lived. For the 2nd year in a row, they stopped in front of the wobbly union hall to "reform the ranks". In 1918, they stormed the union hall and demolished it. In 1919 when they attempted to do the same, the wobblies defended themselves. 4 Legion guys were killed. Several wobblies but 1 wobbly ran away. They chased him to a river north of town, and he couldn't get across. A legionare came into the river after him. He said, "don't come any closer, I'll shoot". The legionare kept approaching, yelling what they did to agitators. Sure enough the wobbly , Wesley Everest, shot and killed Mr. McElfresh. They grabbed him, beat him so badly, that when they got him to jail downtown, he was unrecognizable. They were going to hang him on the spot, but it was decided there were too many women and children around. They threw him in jail. That night there was an unexplainable power outage at the jail. A mob showed up. The jailer threw them the keys and ran away. The mob took him from the jail, headed for the Chehalis river bridge, emasculating him on the way. They hung him not once, but 4 times from the bridge. He was shot full of bullets. The next morning the police chief ordered him cut down. His body was thrown into the jailhouse with the rest of the jailed wobblies and left lying there for 4 days.

 

 15 wobblies were charged with murdering 4 American legion "patriots". The trial was moved to an adjacent county because of interest in a fair trial. When the jury went into deliberations, several hundred National Guardsmen pitched camp on the courthouse lawn. They were there to ensure the "correct" verdict was decided. 14 wobblies went to prison for 15 years.

 

 Up north in Everett that year, some wobblies rode a ferry up from Seattle. As the ferry neared the shore, full of wobblies singing union songs, a couple dozen deputies opened fire. 23 wobblies were killed, 3 deputies, 2 from fellow deputies bullets. Those wobblies too, did long prison terms. My landlord saw the first incident as a boy. His house was repeatedly invaded and ransacked by the legion because his parents had German accents.

 

 Just a reminder that "this great nation" has a few blemishes on it's history also. Hard-working people wanting humane working conditions, mowed down by "patriots" working for the interests of the lumber barons. Perhaps someday, the Chinese may undergo this type of bloody, violent revolution to get better working conditions. Then again, maybe not.

My $0.02

Rig