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> No disrespect meant Rick, but you seriously can't get gigs that make you > more than $50 in Santa Cruz? Actually, I wrote that, not Daniel (just for the record). While I admit to having about zero experience with this, I'm friends with a fair number of folks who seem to have found away to get some money from making music (and I don't know their real financial situation at all, days jobs or what not). I was just surprised that the amount for you was so low. FWIW (and probably very very little) I always kind of thought the way to do this sort of thing was to establish a scene that is just a cool place to be and that by creating a good time and atmosphere you would eventually begin to pull in some kind of income (or at least enough to make it worthwhile-assuming you're having a good time that shouldn't be too hard). Find a place that's loose enough to let you create something and if it works, people will tell more people and the scene will grow. While I very much doubt I will ever make money for playing music, I'm in a similar situation with visual projection. I think I have a pretty great and psychedelic sensibility that really raises the level of the gigs I've been at and yet getting paid to do that has been really a tough sell. Why would people want to pay for such an 'extra' to the music when its not really a necessity? But I should stop before I embarrass myself talking like Micky Rooney to Judy Garland about putting on a show. Sorry to hear its as hard as it is in the trenches. Kevin -- Till now you seriously considered yourself to be the body and to have a form. That is the primal ignorance which is the root cause of all trouble. - Ramana Maharshi (1879-1950)