well, I'm going to unsubscribe for a while and I thought I'd let ya'll know... I think I can do it on my own, now I know your ready to help but I'll try my best boy this NY loopfest sounds great, I wish I was still in the NY area I am after all a 39 year old white male so you know I'd be there still have a DL4 for sale, if you want it send me an email off list peace, stevie T