Re: Frustrated RC-50 user trying to gain bearings with Ableton Live

[Adam Gaskins <shipiboconibo@gmail.com>]

Thanks to all who have replied to this, I am so appreciative that
people are trying to help! :)

Jeff, I've tried to clarify some things, maybe I am just expecting
what is not (yet?) possible?

> If you run Mobius standalone or within a host with the sync mode
> turned off, it will behave as you describe: start recording immediately,
> and end immediately.  You don't get a "click track" this way, you have
> to have the tempo in your head.

I suppose I am just not accurate enough to do this. Whenever I do it
this way after about 20-30 seconds my loop is quite noticeably out of
sync with whats going on in live, and thats if I do it VERY accurately
(of course thats VERY subjective).

> Is there a reason you need to have the Mobius VST slaved to Live?
> Were you slaving the RC-50 from Live or was it slaved to a drum machine?

I just want a loop that I play on guitar to stay in sync with the drum
loops and delay fx and whatnot in Ableton. My RC-50 was always the
master when I used it. This was when I played with a real drummer
though, so I was just keeping FX in sync on my VG-99 and synth gear (I
imagine a drum machine would still have drifted without retriggering).
I thought if I did this all in Ableton that the software would make it
work together. After all, if I just record some guitar and cut a loop
after the fact Ableton loops and it never drifts from any drum or
whatever, even if its less perfect than I could punch in and out of a
live loop, this is because it retriggers. The only way I can get the
punch in and out to be instant in Ableton is to set the bar setting
thing to 'none' at the top (sorry, at work and don't know whats its
called), and that stops everything from retriggering together and it
all drifts horribly before long. I just want to loop in a manner that
I don't have to hit record early. Am I asking for too much? haha

> Basically, VST plugins that slave to host "beats" or "bars" will almost
> always require you to state your intent ahead of the beat/bar.  Humans
> almost never hit the switch exactly on the bar.  If you're slightly
> late the looper would have to "go back in time" and pretend that it 
>started
> recording a few milliseconds before you hit the button.  There are
> techniques
> for this but I wasn't aware the RC-50 had them.

I guess I've never really thought about it much. There was a little
learning curve to get the punch in and out for a loop right, but I
always did first loop sets tempo and from there I would never punch in
or out early, just right on the bar as best I could the RC-50 kept it
all in sync. I am starting to appreciate my RC-50 more! haha.

> If you describe the other pieces of your rig (drum machine, rhythm
> tracks in live, etc.) I can give you better advice.

 I'm not sure how much it matters for this, but I have two setups; 1)
an easily portable setup using Ableton/Guitar Rig 3/Antares Vocal
processing tools/and NI Komplete along with an MPK49 and FCB1010. 2)
my bigger setup is all of the above plus a Roland VG-99, TC VoiceLive,
KP3, and TCfx unit.

I want to be able to do 'one man shows' where I use one or two pages
of my FCB1010 to control different drum loops and scenes and whatnot
in Ableton to evolve the song and another page for looping my guitar,
and another for looping the software synths played with the MPK49. And
the #1 reason I hate the RC-50 is that when I change tempo it sounds
HORRIBLE.

I am getting the impression that what I am spoiled by on my simpler
setup when I used the RC-50 may just not be possible when this more
elaborate setup using drum loops and all. So my question to that is,
do you guys get so used to punching in and out BEFORE the bar that you
don't think about it? I don't want to sacrafice the soulfulness of the
music, but the more I think about it, looping in general was pretty
awkward when I first started, so maybe things will be fine if I just
practice this way more. Any thoughts?

Thanks so much for the help!
-Adam