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Somewhere in the midst of considering issues addressed in E. Cook's thoughts on drumming with loops, and the more recent "implied music" post, I found myself uneasy with the seeming dichotomy of these two texts as they related to the description of musical events. The "linguistics & semantics" game has always annoyed me as a person who plays music by ear, and who could not stomach the scholasticism that musical instruction and theory always seem to be anchored in. Hence I stop lessons, drop out of college, and rock and roll. However real freedom of musical expression does not arrive for me until I discover looping in the late 70's. Finally I can access the tonal and textural powers of an ensemble with out the rampant breakdown in communication and spirit that was always present for me in group musical situations. Better still was the freeing notion that a sense of rhythm was always presenting itself within the loop itself as opposed to some pre-meditated calculations between the "rhythm section" and the rest of the group. Gee...not a team player, am I? Anyway this "systems" generated sense of rhythm within the loop made precise and imprecise polyrhytms available to me for the first time, no mean trick for a guy as white as I am. Even after looping for 18 years now I truly love to find a loop of increasingly stammered and clutching sounds becoming its own "groove" as it where. Since outside (the loop) counterpoint can be reallly powerful, given a good loop to play with, the draw to find a synchronous relationship to the sounds within the loop is overwhelming . The contrast between an acccompanied loop versus a solo loop is really clearly heard if you listen to any "Frippertronics" work with a lead non-loop melody, such as "Evening Star", and compare it to solo-loop work such as "Let The Power Fall", the differences are major. So it's cool to "play along" as it where, but for me at least the notions expressed in "drumming with loops" seem far less viable than the plan of attack presented in "implied music". I know "different strokes for different folks" and all but it reminded me of an experience I had 11 years ago this week when I was attending my second Guitar Craft course. In the midst of a group discussion concerning composition and performance issues, I found myself asking Mr. Fripp why we had to endure this endless parade of mathmatics to access our musical aims. His stern and steadfast reply was that "it wasn't mathmatics, it was arithmatic!" I'm still just looking for music, and I have always believed that along with rhythm, it will present itself. Bryan Helm " Looper, Bombastic Ranter & Musical Fascist"