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Kim Flint wrote:
> At 09:59 PM 8/11/97 -0400, future perfect wrote:
> >Kim Flint wrote:
> >>
> >> Yet more proof that guitarists are the most arrogant people on 
> >>
> >       I have not posted to the Looper list before: my roomate is a 
> >and synthesist and I'm a singer and flutist...
> oh, yeah, I forgot about singers. Guitarists are second. :-)
> Welcome to Looper's Delight...but you asked for it!
> >       Though I do not wish to attack anyone on their views of music 
>and its
> >wide range of expressivity, I do not think a DJ is a musician. He may be
> >a craftsman and an artist, just as say, a non-musician sound engineer
> >can be,
> Many DJ's would agree with you. If you are talking about people who work 
> radio stations or play hits from the 50's at weddings or whatever. That 
>is a
> craft that requires a lot of skill, but is not the same as being a 
> However, there are many people using turntables and samplers and such to
> create unique and new music. Many of these people started out as the 
> sort of dj, working at dance clubs or whatever, and gradually used their
> craft in increasingly creative ways. At some point they are quite 
> (to me anyway) musicians. Where I live, a number of local rock bands have
> even had dj's *as members* since the mid-80's. Functional, contributing
> members of the band. Certainly as qualified to be musicians as the 
> or even the drummer. :-)

Qualified to be members of the band, for sure...but you do not need to
be a musician to be in a band (ask Yoko)...DJ's would probably not call
themselves musicians, and this doesn't diminish their contributions to
the music. 

> And really, to use your other example, there are a lot of recording
> engineers crossing this boundary as well. I've heard a lot of remixes in 
> past few years that were much more creative and interesting than the
> originals. Is the engineer responsible for this really just a craftsman?

You talk like being a craftsman is 'less' than being a musician-its just
as important, just as vital to the music...great engineers I know don't
call themselves musicians, they call themselves engineers.
> Well, I believe a musician is a person who creates music. Very simple, no
> complications. However they wish to do that is fine, it's up to their own
> creative muse. Who am I to decide?
Its the old 'if a monkey throws paint at a canvas, he's an artist'
debate. In the end, its up to all of us to decide..if we don't like it,
we don't buy it.  And if that monkey is suddenly thrown into the
international spotlight, it belittles the job 'artist'. I don't want to
start a debate about what music is.
  You need to delve into your own head to answer those questions. For me
> meant understanding that after years of hard practice, I had developed a 
> ego to go along with the speed at which I could wiggle my fingers. I had 
> get over that and deal with a zillion insecurities about it all. I had to
> get humbled a bunch of times too.  A never ending process, I imagine, but
> undoubtedly a healthy one. I'm certain I would have stopped growing as a
> musician if I hadn't dealt with those issues.

All musicians go through this, years and years of scales, gigs, lessons,
This is why a DJ is a DJ.
> This whole list is about creating music in an unusual way. For me, a 
> is an instrument unto itself, and that's an idea that would probably be a
> bit controversial most anywhere else. Given that, it's sort of amazing 
>to me
> to see some of the narrowness that's come up here about things like 
> and dj's and whatever. It hardly seems useful for us to be promoting 
> silly prejudices.
In the end, if you like it, if other people like it, it doesn't matter
how it was created. Or what we call the people who made it. Go forth,
create...better than arguing about these goofy things. Let this thread


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