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To me, using real-time loops for percussion or cello or radio transmissions or whatever seems just as valid. Why don't other people see it that way? What do we do to change that perception? kim ============================ Although I am a guitar player I recorded many loop pieces in the 80's with percussion, noises etc. No guitars. I fell guitarrists are more gear oriented because they/we have an historical need to change the sound produced by guitar+amp. This does not happen with a synth player as the instrument has more sound possibilities (so they don't spend time with extra gear and tend not to "look outside"). For purely acoustic instruments there are more complicated things involved (and more money): they need a mic, mixer, loop device etc. Maybe it is properly resumed in tradition: - guitarrists are involved with pedals/racks etc. as soon as they buy the first instrument. For them the second purchase is an effect; if they are curious enough they will meet the long delay/loop gear very soon. - keyboard player normally have enough with the keyboard itself and the second purchase will be a MIDI software, board etc. - for the acoustic players, well you can imagine how complicated it gets and the ammount of money involved. Miguel