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(musical instrument = device physically and interactively manipulated in order to perform music; sound effect = device that passively and non-interactively processes sound according to some set rules.) ** it seems that the gray area can be intent or manifestation. however, i think (imho, etc.) an instrument must be able to make an "original" musical (another can of worms, i'm sure) sound, not just the manipulation of that sound. that's why i think that some looping devices are more aptly termed "compositional tools" - - they only put out what you put into them, but can do all sorts of great things with that sound by creating form, etc. also, let's face it, by your definition, some people are going to use looping devices as "effects" . . . stig <font size="1">Confidentiality Warning: This e-mail contains information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If the reader of this e-mail is not the intended recipient or the employee or agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, any dissemination, publication or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. The sender does not accept any responsibility for any loss, disruption or damage to your data or computer system that may occur while using data contained in, or transmitted with, this e-mail. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify us by return e-mail. Thank you.