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ok, since pop music is being discussed and the linguistic thread resurfaced, i wanted to know what you guys thought about what people describe as pop music. Of course, it's really short for popular music, which is pretty much any music that is not "art" or "serious." However, I think most people think of pop as a style of music or certain type of artist. In part, it has to do more with the type of person that is singing and the way the music is presented. Kylie Minogue, NSync, and Madonna are all pop, even though they have different styles of music. But also, people refer to what I call "watered-down rock" as pop. That is, what is basically rock, but with a less abrasive sound where guitars aren't as dominating. This would also include people who's music doesn't fall into a clear genre because they use a wide variety of musical styles yet their music is still within the song format. So, anyways, I'm kinda rambling, but i wanted to see what people thought of this. I'm guessing it's something to with generations, where younger people (including my generation) don't really think about where the word pop comes from, and just use it based on how other people use it... On a somewhat related note, I recently saw the VMA's and noticed they had an award for best rap video and another one for best hip-hop video. Maybe i missed something, but aren't these supposed to be the same thing? Ernesto -- ernesto schnack http://schnack.does.it -- http://fastmail.fm/ - IMAP accessible web-mail