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Hi Jeff, thanks a lot for the manual suggestions, that's really useful feedback. At 11:08 AM 11/1/2004, Jeff Larson wrote: >First, I found the transition from the User's Guide to Parameters >disorienting. I think Functions should have been first. I was >expecting more depth on the User's Guide material but got lost in >parameter details without having a good mental model for how those >might actually be used. that makes sense. >Functions should be presented in order of "popularity" rather than >alphabetically. Yes, this part is a challenge. I dislike alphabetical order also. The original manual was totally alphabetical for the whole reference section, which meant lots of strange juxtapositions like Input Volume next to Insert. It made no sense. I split everything into categories for the new manual to make that work better. But then I left it alphabetical in the individual chapters because I figured that would make it much easier for someone to pick up the manual and quickly find a specific item. It doesn't work so well for reading straight through. If the reference section were ordered for readability it would then be much harder to find a specific thing quickly when you are looking back at it for reference. It is hard to decide which way is right. In the end I was way past the deadline and it was already alphabetical, so the decision got made that way! >Sure everyone has a different way of approaching the >EDP, but I'll bet the top 10 functions of interest will be pretty much >the same for 99% of new users. Put brain contorting features like >InterfaceMode and Loop Windowing last. There is enough to digest >without having those bombs dropped on you in the middle. Possibly an >"Advanced" section to contain those things that you won't understand >until you already have a good grasp of basic functions. That's probably a good idea. The "Quick Start" chapter in the beginning is supposed to cover the basic stuff for beginners. I really expect people would spend a few weeks just learning that part before moving on the more advanced functions. But perhaps the quick start needs more. Still, most people stick to the functions in that section for a long time. The whole "user guide" portion got shortchanged in the first Echoplex manual because time ran out to finish it. I had the same problem again this time for the new manual, the reference section took a long time but I felt it was necessary for that part to be complete and accurate. I managed to do a few passes over the whole User Guide half of the manual before I had to wrap it up, adding some new material and making it more clear and complete. It is a lot better than it was in the old manual, but I still wish I could do more in there. The problem I see is many people buy a looper with an expectation that it is like a simple effect, where they plug into it and it makes some noise and there is fairly instant gratification. You can figure the effect parameters out in an afternoon. They don't realize that they have just bought a new musical instrument that they will need to learn how to play it, and this will take some time and practice, just as it does with any other instrument. >The problem with this approach is that some parameters like Quantize >affect lots of functions and you don't want to duplicate it >everywhere. I did try to make sure the effect of quantize and some other parameters was included with functions where it mattered. It is hard to make a judgement about that, since it can end up with a lot of duplication if the effect of every parameter is included in each function. It is clearly needed sometimes, however. >For this and a few other things I would add a "Concepts" >section that precedes Functions. Here you introduce what functions, >parameters, and presets are. Then a few broadly applicable concepts >like like Feedback, Quantize, MoreLoops, maybe SwitchQuant, and some >things in the Functions section that aren't really functions like SUS >Commands and LoopDivide. In the beginning is the section called "Terminology" that does some of this. I added to that over the original manual to cover more of the concepts as you suggest. I agree it could have still more, and maybe it is better named "Concepts" and given a whole chapter. >I might move interesting but not very practical information like >"Undo/Under The Hood" to an Appendix. There I don't agree, if you really want to use Undo well, it is essential to understand how it works internally. I don't want to make people bounce around so much to reach that understanding, I want to lead them into it soon. Or at least leave them with the feeling that there is some important details still to learn. If it is in an appendix most people will never see it. I have noticed with the new manual that people are reaching the more advanced looping concepts a lot faster than they did before, since so much of it is now explicitly described. Before you had to intuit so much that most never got there. Plus it helps that today there are many more experienced loopers creating good music and using more advanced looping techniques. Much more is taught that way than by manuals, I think. >The "Parameter Presets" and "User Interface" felt sort of buried, I >would probably place them higher, certainly above Synchronization and >MIDI Control, and maybe after Concepts. The User Interface part especially. I don't really remember why I had that towards the end, it doesn't make sense to me now either! Probably another thing where I just ran out of time and left it where it was. >Now, I don't want to sound too critical. These are debatable >editorial choices that should not detract from the fact that the >manual is extremely comprehensive and accurate. I have great respect >for the authors, writing for complex systems is a very hard job. Well, thanks a lot. Criticisms are fine with me when they come along with useful suggestions and specific examples of where the problems are. So this is quite helpful. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@loopers-delight.com | http://www.loopers-delight.com