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One thing I haven't seen brought up in the octave down/ octave up discussion that, while many of you may take for granted, some of you might not be thinking about involves full-range amplification. Like many (most?) listmembers, I'm a multi-instrumentalist caught between the Scylla of desiring sonic versatility and the Charybdis of having to carry too much gear around. My rig varies in size and complexity depending on logistics, practicality and laziness; generally, it's guitar-based with a small tube combo amp for straight guitar signal and a full-range stereo mixer/power amp/speakers setup for the reverb and loops, plus for other instruments I loop that might not sound great through a guitar amp. Depending on the situation, the speakers might be larger cabs with horns and 15" woofers, or modified 12" wedge monitors, or these little cabs I made by sawing a car speaker thing in half. Obviously, the best low-end response is when I'm using the big boys, but not only do I then have to transport them, sometimes the setup doesn't even fit on the stage. The 12-inchers don't have a very good low-end; a fact that David Kirkdorffer tactfully pointed out to me once. I'm currently experimenting with a subwoofer/satellite system that might be the best size-to-ooomph ratio I've tried yet, but it's not ready yet. When I'm playing with other folks and wearing my bass player hat for the whole evening, obviously I bring along a bass amp. But for times when bass is either an adjunct to guitar or simulated with circuitry, I don't usually feel like bringing both amps, so the low end suffers. That's why I hardly ever use either of my doublenecks; the bass just sounds wrong when inadequately amplified. (If anyone remembers my cobalt-blue quasi-Teuffel Tesla doubleneck with the two-string fretless bass neck above the headless 6-string guitar neck, several months ago I removed the bass neck. I wasn't using it much and it kept whacking my mic stand...) So, in critiquing the various octave and pitch-shifting pedals, we have to remember that the playing field isn't exactly level.... -t- __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! http://my.yahoo.com