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I'm going to copy the group on this, because I think it is very informative. Basically, what I've learned so far is that I can't use the Shoutcast/Winamp system because I don't have my own server or don't have access to one...but it works great in my home WI-FI network! :) Skype is not an option because only four people can conference at the same time, and it is only voice quality. What I am left with right now is to pay a service for the streaming capability. I like that anyway, because it is less hassle for me. Ken brought up Live365.com...very cool. My comments below on that. This about sums it up, below. The P300 would work for me, 30 live listeners, but I still can't justify the price when playing only 2-3 gigs a month, and perhaps only one where there is a WI-FI connection where people can listen it. Why don't these companies offer a pay per use plan? I would be willing to pay someone $5 an hour for usage...that is $10 - $15 a gig. https://store.live365.com/orders/comparison-chart.live The P100 might even work for starters....I doubt I would have more than 10 virtual listeners at an average performance, especially with the time zone change to Europe, US, etc. You are right, ideal would be for three musicians in Moutain Time, East Cost Time, and UK time to share one service, like P300. That would be only $8 a piece. Any other services out there like this? We're getting closer..... Kris -----Original Message----- From: Ken Higgins [mailto:khl2005@topic.net] Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 6:23 PM To: Hartung, Kris Subject: RE: Inexpensive/Easy Way to Stream Live Performances Kris, First of all, depending on how you navigate around and which buttons you push at the Live365.com website, the "setup fee" may be Free, or up to $199. So be aware of this. As soon as you get under "PRO Station Options" they want to charge more. If you are only streaming non-copyrighted stuff, it's easy. They have different packages which include royalty payments if needed. Their "P1000" package (one of the ones listed under "Personal Station Options" then -> "For Serious Personal Broadcasters") includes 100 "Live/Relay" Simultaneous listeners. This is the closest to what we have and it costs $45/month. No hourly charges, but we've never maxed out in the 5 months we've been with them. We have a slightly different deal as we are a non-profit and they adjusted some things for us. We only stream our live signal with Live365 so you'll have to check into what you can and cannot do with the 1,000 MB of storage. The package includes their software to stream to them, which is pretty simple. There is an interface for seeing how many users are online, etc. but I don't see any "chat room" function. I'd imagine that having live messages reach you in a way that is legible while playing (i.e. BIG FONT) may be easier with an email client rather than a browser. YMMV. There is some stuff where you have to place a MIME type setup file (htaccess, actually) to have links on your web page correctly point to their audio servers, but it's pretty quick and simple. Could be a cool opportunity to have several like-minded musicians chip in and have an inexpensive shared resource... Back to hardware/software: RE: your setup... Wow! You must push the CPU pretty hard at times. I'm pretty hardware-based for effects (Chapman Stick, 4 multi-effects units, smattering of pedals, two Vortices, EMU PX-7 for percussion). But..., the EDP doesn't seem to think the way I do. Right now I'm looking to migrate away from my pair of beige EDPs (upgraded to Pro's) and towards software looping tools. Ableton Live looks really, really interesting. I use Logic as my main DAW. Looking at Mobius, Augustus, SooperLooper or Ableton. Any suggestions or links come to mind? Sorry if you've already discussed this in the forum, if so let me know and I'll search it some more. Even though I prefer to stay with the Mac platform, it looks like I may have to go PC for the looper (I'd just put together a robust 2U rack-mount PC, if I have to). Feel free to not respond to this part if you don't have time. Ken Higgins =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- You wrote: >Interesting. How much does it cost per hour to stream to Live365? I've >given up on Winamp/Shoutcast. I don't have my own server, which seems >to be the catch with all of these services...and there is no way my ISP >is going to let me use their server. So I'm screwed. >Skype won't work...you can only conference with >4 other people, and it is geared for voice >calls, not music. This is frustrating. > >Kris > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Ken Higgins [mailto:khl2005@topic.net] >Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 2:21 PM >To: Hartung, Kris >Subject: RE: Inexpensive/Easy Way to Stream Live Performances > > >Hi Kris, Ken from Loopers-Delight with an off-list reply. > >I work for a PBS-TV / NPR-Radio station in >Northern California (krcb.org), and have gone >through some of what you are describing/trying >to do. > >We _were_ streaming our own radio broadcasts, >and now we use Live365.com to multicast our >signal. >Why? > >Even with a kick-ass DSL connection with 5mb >downstream and 1mb upstream we simply could not >handle enough users simultaneously. Plus, as >the listener count increased, so did the CPU >required. Pretty soon we had a pretty fast >machine connected to a pretty fast Internet >connection, and users were still getting refused >or dropped. No fun for anyone. > >Now, with Live365 (which is _not_ a perfect >service) we stream them ONE mp3 stream at our >choice of bit rates, and they in turn multi-cast >that to the world. We currently have a limit of >100 simultaneous users. > >This has been working well for us, compared to >"rolling our own". I do like the bit-torrent >sort of idea, but that pretty much breaks the >real-time interactivity aspect. > >So, do the math on how many users you would >expect (at the venue and via the 'Net), and >you'll see that the demands for bandwidth and >CPU horsepower quickly get rather staggering, by >normal standards. Perhaps Live365 or some such >service has discounted service available for >single events. Our delay with them is on the >order of 10-15 seconds. > >Let me know if I can help. > >Ken > >PS: You turned me on to the replacement "rotary >encoders" for the Lexicon Vortex many months >back. I seem to remember you didn't continue to >use the Vortex. May I ask why? Still looking >for 'mangling tools? > >Thanks! > >=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > > >>So, you have used the winamp / Line In / Oddcast system successfully? >>This works for me. I recall that last year I connected to Bernhard's >>winamp stream at the last day of Y2K4 no problem. I'll give that a try >>and try to have something for everyone to test by the end of this week. >> >>It does seem odd to me that with all the technology and fast internet >>services we have now, that this is so difficult to achieve. >> >>Kris >> >> >>On 8/1/05, Rainer Thelonius Balthasar Straschill <rs@moinlabs.de> wrote: >>> Kris, >>> >>> the problem here ist that somebody needs to have the upstream >>> capacity to stream your stream bandwidth times the number of >>> listeners, and there are chances that your wi-fi internet access >>> will not provide that. So in most cases, the deal is to either >>> connect to a server with a high-bandwidth connection or at least to >>> use an additional server (with this kind of connection) as a relay. >>> >>> I had tried that with several of my computers at home and in the >>> office >>> - for generating the stream, I used an input plugin for winamp >>> (called >>> line_in.dll) that provides your computers' line input as a source in >>> Winamp and then used the Oddcast DSP plugin to generate an Ogg/Vorbis >>> stream. This stream was then distributed with a software that was >>> called ezstream. >>> >>> All of these programs came for free, at least for the short time I >>> was experimenting with them. >>> >>> I don't know of any a-la-torrent solutions where the clients also >>> serve streams themselves. >>> >>> Rainer >>> >>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- >>> Von: Krispen Hartung [mailto:info@krispenhartung.com] >>> Gesendet: Montag, 1. August 2005 07:23 >>> An: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com >>> Betreff: RE: Inexpensive/Easy Way to Stream Live Performances >>> >>> >>> Yes, that sounds like what I want to do alright...streaming MP3 >>> directly from my laptop. I am using XP. The trick is that I'd like >>> to do it from my host and not an external web server. It would be >>> sort of like those internet services who provide peer-to-peer file >>> sharing, rather than relying on an intermediate server. I suppose I >>> could setup my laptop as a webserver, if I knew how to do that. >>> Whatever the case, it needs to work wherever >>>I go and there is WI-FI access. >>> >>> Kris >>> >> > >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Todd Pafford [mailto:calenlas@gmail.com] >>> Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2005 11:18 PM >>> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com >>> Subject: Re: Inexpensive/Easy Way to Stream Live Performances >>> >>> >>> Kris, >>> >>> This sounds like a great idea and I wish you the best of luck. It >>> certainly seems like it should be do-able. The solution I'm >>> imagining would involve running your audio into the laptop, doing a >>> continuous conversion into mp3, then streaming that out. Certainly >>> doesn't sound too difficult, or too taxing on the hardware. >>> Unfortunately, I don't know of any applications off the top of my >head. >>> >>> What OS are you using? I think I could cook something up on my >>> linux box using available tools and a simple script, but that >>> probably wouldn't help you if you're on Windows. OSX might have >>> similar capabilities, but I don't know. >>> >>> Todd > >> >>> >>> >>> On 7/31/05, Hartung, Kris <kris.hartung@hp.com> wrote: >>> > Does anyone know of a cost effective way to share real-time > >>> performances over the web? I tried the voice feature of my Yahoo > >>> Chat >>> >>> > room , and it is atrocious. I can hear the music, but it is very >>> > choppy and at a low bit/frequency rate. You would think that with a >>> > fast internet and a laptop that there is some effective way to do >>> > this >>> >>> > without costing a fortune or owning a remote server. What about >>> > Real Audio? Any free resources to pull this off? >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >>-- >>~~calenlas~~