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The welfare case (or more generally: working as a musician exclusively but deducting an income from sources not directly connected to making music) makes this a little bit more complicated: Ludwig van Beethoven (who received a pension from Duke Waldstein based on his living in Vienna) or Karlheinz Stockhausen and Richard Strauß (both married a rich girl)... Still I understand your point relating to "pro" how your life plan works, as opposed to how good you are, although this gives the pro abbreviation a meaning closer related to "profitable"... Rainer -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Travis Hartnett [mailto:travishartnett@gmail.com] Gesendet: Sonntag, 16. Oktober 2005 18:00 An: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com Betreff: Re: Building a rackmount looping computer as an alternative to the Receptor for Mobius > So your definition of pro or non-pro is entirely based on the > economics. Yes! > Which would make somebody living off welfare and at the same time > trying to get somebody interested in their entirely unprofessional art > is a professional, No--the welfare case isn't paying his bills from money derived from music-making activities. In a related case: Vincent van Gogh was never a professional painter. Bryan Beller: no, wasn't a professional musician until recently. Has existed in the semi-pro years since leaving college under my definition. Another related case: Philip Glass drove a taxi and installed kitchen appliances to pay the bills until the early 80's. TravisH On 10/16/05, Rainer Thelonius Balthasar Straschill <rs@moinlabs.de> wrote: > So your definition of pro or non-pro is entirely based on the > economics. Which would make somebody living off welfare and at the > same time trying to get somebody interested in their entirely > unprofessional art is a professional, while somebody like e.g. Bryan > Beller (of Mike Keneally/Beer for Dolphins, Z, Steve Vai, > Mullmuzzler/Jamie LaBrie etc.) isn't (or at least hasn't been until > shortly). >