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I fit into the semi-pro (I think) category because I draw from both engineering and musician gigs to make a living. I say 'I think' for the following reasons... - my day job is a software contractor for a company that makes home audio/video gear and I love it - my role as musician and studio engineer alone earns me enough to make a living - I do both because I can (both opportunities were made available to me) So if I make enough as a musician to cover all of my short and long term expenses and I still choose to keep my day job, does that make me semi-pro? -----Original Message----- From: hazard factor [mailto:artists@hazardfactor.com] Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 5:04 PM To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com Subject: RE: Defining "pro" I define pro, in any type of 'arts', is someone who makes a commitment to doing all that is needed to make a living through their art. Any pro will tell you, playing music for a living is about 5% of your time playing. The rest is on the phone, networking, promoting, designing websites, meeting people in your town who might hire you, attending city council meetings encouraging them to spend more on the arts, etc... Not everyone is ok with such a lifestyle change though, and they have made the choice that such things like a steady job, a family, a few SUVs, health insurance and a big house are the important things to them. I know lots of semi-pro's who are amazing musicians, certainly better than some pros I know. For them, a professional musician's life is not for them I teach guitar, to about 50-60 students a week, and try to play lots of solo looping gigs for city money, or galleries, etc... I have to have a van to cart my stuff, and I had to buy it so I didn't have a car payment...it is older, so insurance is low. Where I live is nice, but small, so rent isn't bad. I don't have kids, or an expensive and non-supportive wife/girlfriend. Sad, but these choices directly affect whether or not musicians (at least in America) can make music for a living. I am proud to call myself a 'pro musician' when people ask. I don't know what it is like in other countries, but funny thing when you say this to some people in America- they come back with...'at least you do what you love'. At least? Is there anything else? Am I supposed to feel bad/envious? I notice though, with these great musicians I know who are not pros, when someone asks what they do, they love to say 'I am a doctor/gym teacher/insurance agent/secretary/whatever', and would *never* in a social situation define themselves as a musician. Funny, though, around other musicians they wouldn't hesitate to say they are musicians. Stigma, perhaps? It is sometimes hard to fight that musicians can be regarded as jobless, unreliable bums. Another topic, but Gear magazines push expensive guitars and other instruments, and no pro I know has the latest and greatest stuff. I don't, and never have, defined a pro by his/her gear, although magazines and Musician's Friend want you to think otherwise. Just like Cosmo's advertisers want to make women think, if they buy these clothes, they will look like the models in the picture. Dave Eichenberger http://www.hazardfactor.com > Hi, > But now we're on dangerous ground. I'd like to respectfully > disagree with Per and Travis. > > In my book, it's a matter of dedication, focus, intent and > sustained follow-through (i.e. over years) that defines a Pro. > > Travis said, > > "Turning pro" usually means "I've quit my day job". > > If you've got a W-2 with something other than "musician" > > listed on it, you're semi-pro. >