Re: what a loop has to say

[Doug Cox <dougcox@pdq.net>]

I think this is a great point.  When you start down this path of 
invalidating an artistic expression because of how it was created, and 
create some sort of continuum of "good/artistic" vs. "bad/generated by 
'gear'", then you might come to the conclusion that you can only be 
valid by standing naked in front of the audience, using only the 
voice/body to create.  While this might be interesting (!), it's not the 
only valid, artistic, or "good" way to create music.

I know - that's an extreme example, but I find extreme examples help 
illuminate the model under examination.

After all - the acoustic guitar is a very complex device all on it's 
own.  If someone said "yeah, that's all real pretty and everything - but 
lets see him do it with NO guitar", it would probably be considered a 
ridiculous statement.

So, on this matter, I find myself willing to accept a wide range of 
inputs/processing/outputs as valid, artistic expression.  It's the end 
result, not the process, that I choose to evaluate against my own 
personal tastes.

The preceding is worth exactly what you paid for it :D


matthew.quinn@sunlife.com wrote:

>Boy I wish I had the time to respond to this the way I'd like- maybe I'll
>get to it next week when I get back from Amsterdam......
>
>Basically though, IMO- NO effects box can do anything unless a person is
>operating it. Until that's not the case, you have to accept that they are
>tools that requires some skill (how much is debatable) to 'play'.
>
>There are a lot of paralells in this conversation with the age old 'Is the
>turntable an instrument?' debate, but what they both boil down to IMO is
>the fact that neither a turntable or an effects unit is particularly
>impressive without someone skillfully operating it.  I mean, if you follow
>the logic of 'hiding behind gear', where do you draw the line? When you
>pluck an acoustic guitar, you aren't making the sound- very basic
>technology (strings vibrating over a sound hole) creates the sound. Are 
>you
>then hiding behind the technology of the acoustic guitar? I guess only
>vocalists would be considered pure musicians then.  ; )
>
>To me- if I can use it (whether 'it' be a bass, a wood block, a Flanger, a
>laptop or a Repeater) to make noise, it's an instrument. From there the
>only thing that matters is how the artist chooses to use the sound 
>creation
>device.
>
>Well that got a little more lengthy than I thought I was going to
>go.....just some Friday morning ramblings.
>
>
>
>                                                                          
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>                                                             
>             "Kris Hartung"                    To: 
>Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com                                       
>          
>             <khartung@cableone.net>           cc:                        
>                                                             
>             03/17/2006 10:46 AM               Subject:  Re: what a loop 
>has to say                                                    
>             Please respond to                                            
>                                                             
>             Loopers-Delight                                              
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>
>My wife once told me that when I sit down with my acoustic guitar and just
>play freely, that what she hears sound more creative than anything else I
>do with my gear, looping, etc. I find that sort of interesting (sometimes
>discouraging)...makes me start to question what is really necessary for me
>to express myself artistically, vs. hiding behind the gear. Heck, if I can
>sit down at a gig with just my acoustic, and satisfy both myself and 
>others
>artistically, I'd probably be retired right now with all the money I would
>have saved!  :)
>
>But I just love the effects, and I openly admit that "sometimes" they do
>substitute for true, raw creativity. I would be surprised if anyone on 
>this
>list who uses a lot of gear thought or felt otherwise.  It would take 
>quite
>a artistic genius to ALWAYS, 100% of the time, have effects acquiesce to
>one's talent and creativity, rather than the other way around. Either an
>artistic genius, or a complete liar.
>
>Kris
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: daniel stevenson
> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 2:39 AM
> Subject: Re: what a loop has to say
>
> i do find the clean acoustic guitar to be my muse.yet ill mangle it with
> reverse and speed control.varible delay times seems to keep the sound
> pure.maybe just a phase im goin thru but nothing beats a good ole 
>acoustic
> source into a looper.
>                                     my best regards,
>                                                               scary
> visionary.
>
> Kris Hartung <khartung@cableone.net> wrote:
>  > Yep, to me a loop says, "Freedom."
>  > G
>
>  Speaking of which, does anyone find it easier to freely improvise when
>  you
>  aren't using layers and layers of effects, tone mangling devices, etc?
>  I've
>  found this to be the case with me. I love all the cool effects at my
>  disposal - the Boss VF-1, hundreds of VST effects, LXP5, etc - but they
>  sometimes produce artificial restrictions or boundaries on my 
>creativity.
>  I
>  tend to be more intentionally and genuinely creative, and less enamored
>  and
>  influenced by technology, when I just play with a clean guitar sound 
>with
>
>  just a touch of reverb and delay for ambiance. You have nothing but the
>  notes, basically, no window dressing to distract the creative process.
>  I'm
>  sure this is quite subjective and relative, but I'd be curious what
>  others
>  think of this. I guess just the simple sound of the guitar forces me to
>  think more out of the box, rather than relying on the box. For example,
>  you
>  have a effect patch that has two octaves and panning delays that go on
>  forrrrrrrever....you play one "note"...just one human data-point of
>  interaction, and the gear takes credit for the rest of the interesting
>  sound
>  for the next minute. And I start to think to myself, what is really
>  creative
>  about that? I could play 10 notes in 3 minutes and produce a song that
>  requires very little creative energy. It would be interesting to take 
>all
>
>  of our looping songs and strip every single cool effect from them,
>  resulting
>  in just the initially, humanly generated notes and natural sound of the
>  instrument...what might we discover? How much of the intrigue of the 
>song
>  is
>  generated by the gear vs. human creative energy? These are just open
>  questions for discussion. I'm not necessarily making any categorical
>  point
>  here.
>
>  And in this regard, I really respect a lot of the work of Derek Bailey,
>  where its just him and his hollowbody guitar...quite amazing what a guy
>  can
>  do with just a guitar and amp.
>
>  ...I'm off to bed now. It's been a long day.
>
>  Kris
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Mail
> Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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