Re: Coffeehouse Guitar vs street-busker

["Krispen Hartung" <khartung@cableone.net>]

I think anything you say about how any type of music affects you 
emotionally 
or intellectually is valid and undisputable, provided you say what you 
feel 
and not make it sound like an externally orientated statement that applies 
to everyone.  It's sacred ground. It's not even open for debate because 
your 
own feelings are your own and no one else's. But once we start assuming 
how 
music affects other listeners then we are attempting to second guess the 
contents of a black box, viz., the minds and hearts of other people.

So to say that one observes a performer reaching an audience sort of 
describes an impossible situation, because we don't observe the minds and 
feelings of people (only infer them from behavior), and quite frequently 
people admit that their behavior (which we can observe) does not always 
correspond 1-to-1 with emotional and thought.  This is why cognitive 
psychology is not hard science and relies on models rather than direct 
observation of their object of study. Hard core behaviorists, on the other 
hand, deny the existence of mind, and directly observe their objects of 
study.

When I hear something that totally grabs me, I can never assume that it 
does 
the same for someone else. That event is a private affair.  And this is 
why 
we see so many arguments online that go no where and don't get resolved, 
because one person is describing their private affair, and another their 
own 
private affair, yet both are stated as something public or generic, which 
is 
taken negatively by the other person.

Half the time, when I see people argue online here on this list, if they 
communicated their thoughts and feelings accurately from the outset, they 
would discover that there was nothing to argue about. I fall back to our 
dear German linguistic/analytic philosopher Wittgenstein's view on the 
matter, which is there are no arguments, only language games. Once people 
define their terms up front and express themselves accurately, there is 
nothing left to dispute, because they realize that they are disputing 
apples 
and oranges. I've always loved that reflection on disputes.

Kris

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <phaslem@wightman.ca>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 10:07 AM
Subject: Re: Coffeehouse Guitar vs street-busker


> I'm not really picking on any particular style of playing, technique or 
> artistic
> merit here.... I've observed players and audiences for a lot years. Some 
> have a
> great ability to reach an audience far beyond what I can subjectively 
> explain.
> People who can pull you into their vision weather you're a fan or 
>not.... 
> I'm
> probably not explaining myself very well.
> I agree my connection is affected by my own emotional, mental and 
>physical 
> state
> of being, but what about those times when you hear something that 
>totally 
> grabs
> you, unexpected?
>
> Paul
>
>
>
>
>
> Quoting Krispen Hartung <khartung@cableone.net>:
>
>>
>> There was a time when I would have vehemently and completely agreed 
>with 
>> you above, but my thinking has changed and softened up.  I believe the 
>> idea of having soul in your playing, being moved by music and having 
>> notes grab you, is an entirely subjective and relative notion.   A 
>piece 
>> of music can be emotionally provocative or stirring for one person, but 
>> sterile and unmoving to another based on their individual and unique 
>> emotional makeups. Therefore, I believe making blanket statements about 
>> certain types of music and playing approaches in regard to their artist 
>> merit and emotional impact are essentially vacuous and illegitimate.  
>If 
>> you can find me one style of music or approach to playing that is as 
>you 
>> say above to ALL listeners, then I would consider your point valid and 
>> proven....good luck with that, however. ;)  It is very difficult to 
>find 
>> or legitimize universal or generalized value statements in art. Many 
>try, 
>> but end up betraying themselves in the long run for doing so.  I don't 
>> mean to come across as harsh or pedantic here, but statements about the 
>> artistic or emotional impact of music do need to be translated and 
>> qualified as personal and subjective sentiment, and not factual 
>> statements that denote actual characteristics of art.  In my opinion, 
>> there is no such thing as a factual value statement about a piece of 
>art, 
>> only factual statements that describe measureable or empirically 
>> observalbe characteristics of the art. Everything else I feel falls 
>into 
>> the personal feeling category, which is more telling of the observer 
>and 
>> not the piece of art.
>>
>>> Paul Haslem
>>> dulcimer guy in Canada
>>
>> Kris
>
>
>