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Wow, what next? A hand drum made by yourself in the rain forest, with the skin of an animal you slayed yourself for nourishment, and the wood of a tree you cut down for shelter? :) Back to basics. What is the most primitive looping technique and experience in the world? One might imagine a Homo Habilis (~2.2 to 1.6 million years BCE), Homo Erectus (~2 to 0.4 million years BCE), Neanderthal (~200,000 to 30,000 years BCE), Cro-Magdon (~40,000 to 10,000 years BCE) shouting, singing, or banging an object in a cave (in Europe) or a large canyon (in Africa), and being amused by the echo (loop). I'm quite sure some human/hominid ancestor experienced this phenomenon and the intrigue with hearing our voice or some other sound repeat by means of a power outside our control. So, did looping start with Terry Riley or Steve Reich? Maybe from a modern technology standpoint, but certainly not in principle as a human experience or even from a general technological standpoint (given that tool use is a form of technology and goes back to ~2.6 million years ago). I'd say it is very likely that the proto-humans experienced their first looping experience over 2 million years ago. BTW, what's the longest delay time you've experienced by shouting in a large canyon or cave? Kris I'll do you one better... I haven't turned on my rack of gear in about two years. Instead I've been playing flamenco, just me and my guitar. There's something beautiful in the simplicity of fingers moving strings, strings moving wood, wood moving air. I still like hanging around here listening to you folks grip about gear, though. ;) Todd On Nov 28, 2007 12:00 AM, Krispen Hartung < khartung@cableone.net> wrote: It's liberating isn't it? For the last month, I have been looping with just my clean jazz guitar sound, and my max/msp looper. I have been concentrating on what I can do with just my instrument without the aid of tone mangling effects, just the tone of the guitar and the power of the looper and its features. It occured to me how easy it is (at least for me) to make decent sounding music with loads of effects as a artistic crutch...a few lush ambient fripp like patches, some long delays and modulation, granular synthesis, layers of effects and pitch, etc. After a while, my primary instrument is overshadowed, the love of my music life that has been with me for 28 years. I find it much more interesting and challenging to work with just my guitar tone now, and see what limits I can push, what boundaries I can leap without the aid of the all so seductive tone mangling effect crutch. :) We'll see where this goes.... Kris ----- Original Message ----- wow, so many good threads at the moment. I would totally agree, adding in more loopers, then a handsonic, then a guitar synth, then loosing two multi fx for six pedals....i only realised yesterday i ha`nt played a single one of my songs through to completion for litterally two months,thats just how caught up i am in all the possibilities of all this new gear (plus i am learning to hand drum which is a whole new game) in the end i went out last night with nothing more then my guitar and DL4 and couldnt had a more fun night...i actually played songs!!!!!! Phill MyOneManBand www.myspace.com/myonemanband > If we can get used to compartmentalizing those roles into their > chosen times, I think we could be much happier overall. That means > dedicating scheduled time to building and tweeking all the bugs out > of a setup until it works just how it's supposed to. Then WALK AWAY > AND LEAVE IT ALONE. Later, come back and work on mastering making > good music on that setup. If something goes wrong, make a note but > leave it until the next build slot comes up. > Are you the Quizmaster? Play BrainBattle with a friend now!