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Though I've worked in IT tech support to pay the bills for 15+ yrs and time to time hacked away at programming languages teaching myself from C in DOS world to later various in Windows worlds I've never quite had the logic intellect to make the jump to coding for a JOB however I've been fascinated by it. That said I agree the Bill Gates was more right time right place entreprenuer and less an artful programmer. On the other side though maybe Linus T was not in some opinions a genuis programmer I've always felt that those that did things for the good of the Net and world community were to be viewed with high regard. Jim On 7/18/09, Warren Sirota <wsirota@wsdesigns.com> wrote: > Hi Toby, > > I don't think Art is dissing Gates or Windows, just making the point that > tho he may have been an excellent programmer, what he was truly *great* >at > was building a business (well, Art was saying he's just lucky, but I'm > saying he's a great businessman. Just like Steve Jobs. But not as hip.) > > Warren > > On Sat, Jul 18, 2009 at 12:37 AM, Toby Graves <carpet8@mac.com> wrote: > >> Microsoft has done acceptable stuff. I guess the way I measure it >is--how >> many windows related products have made me say, "wow, that's really f'n >> cool?" Full disclosure: I own a PC w/XP and a Mac. >> >> t >> >> >> On Jul 17, 2009, at 9:34 PM, Art Simon wrote: >> >> Warren and Jeff, you make good points and I think Gladwell was on weak >>> ground we he spoke to computer programming. Was Bill Gates a great >>> programmer? What made Bill Gates "great" was that he got IBM to use >>> his operating system, but allow him to keep the license. Microsoft has >>> done some good stuff, but they owe their continuing existence to that >>> one stroke of luck or hubris. >>> >>> On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 3:20 PM, Warren Sirota<wsirota@wsdesigns.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> That would include most of the programmers in the world, and if my >>>>> work experience is any indication, very few of them are who I would >>>>> consider "great" :-) >>>>> >>>>> 10,000 hours might get you "professional". You would be able to >>>>> compete in the job market and be a valued team member. But great? >>>>> >>>>> I think greatness as a programmer is much harder to quantify than >>>>> greatness as a musician. Many people think Linus Torvalds is great, >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> how many great programmers have there been in the history of >computing? >>>> 5? >>>> 15? you pretty much have to create a platform to be considered great, >>>> i'd >>>> say - make an OS or invent a language, something like that. Even if >you >>>> write a great application program, that doesn't make you a great >>>> programmer >>>> (tho something like Visicalc qualifies because it started a supremely >>>> useful >>>> category). a great programmer would be severely out of place on most >of >>>> the >>>> teams I'm on. >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Warren >>>> http://www.ubetoo.com/Artist.taf?_ArtistId=6679 >>>> http://www.warrensirota.com >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Art Simon >>> simart@gmail.com >>> myspace [dot] com/artsimon >>> >>> >> > > > -- > Warren > http://www.ubetoo.com/Artist.taf?_ArtistId=6679 > http://www.warrensirota.com > -- ReUse, an introspective textural aural www.myspace.com/CtReUse music links... www.jimgoodinmusic.com www.chinapaintingmusic.com www.myspace.com/jimgoodinmusic www.myspace.com/chinapaintingmusic www.myspace.com/jimgoodinviolinelectro www.myspace.com/jindream www.youtube.com/jimgoodinmusic video work/editing... www.vimeo.com/jimgoodindigital social networking... www.twitter.com/jimgoodinmusic