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At 10:12 AM -0800 12/30/09, Christopher Darrow wrote: >Looping is a juggling act, and a bit of magic. It takes a bit of >slight of hand to keep all the balls in the air. > >I think whatever is done with INTENTION to achieve this "counts." Hi, As an occasional looper who spends most of his art time doing video and photography, I have to chime in here. Thanks Christopher, for changing the thread title from sales to intention, which is much more relevant to my interests. My personal intentions as a video artist (and occasionally, as a composer/sound track arranger for my videos) is to make pieces (live or in studio) in which the video and music are balanced and complimentary, and neither medium dominates the other. I certainly respect that some musicians prefer to present their music straight up, with no visual accompaniment. I agree that randomly tossing visual into a performance without regard to the music being played is not likely to be enlightening. OTOH, for one of the pieces I've been working on this holiday vacation, I decided that a sketch I had been working on would go well with a piece of music that I wanted to work with, so I just put them together intentionally. When I look at some of my recent work-in-progress, I find my mind drifting between listening to music with visual accompaniment and watching a video with a soundtrack. I take that as a sign that I am approaching the level of integration I am intending. At 10:26 AM -0500 12/30/09, Warren Sirota wrote: > >Interestingly enough, I would probably prefer to perform with >someone fingerpainting with a project (a la Joshua Light Show, >Fillmore East, 1968) over someone manipulating video because of the >greater immediacy and (literal and functional) fluidity of the >former.... I can very much relate to this comment -- indeed seeing the Joshua Light Show is one of the things that inspired me to do the visual art that I've been making for the past 40 years. Liquid lights have a physical immediacy that nothing I can do with a video mixer can match. Indeed I have to work to avoid the trap of trying to be as physical in my mixing as the musicians. If I am too physical, my imagery becomes too cluttered. I find I'm best off combining material that seems to fit the music and making slow changes in response to it. In my ideal performance scenario, I'd work with musicians who were comfortable reacting to imagery, and we would collectively work out structural improvisations based on musical and visual motifs that we developed. In the real world of single to low double digit audiences and rigs (especially my own) too big to make rehearsals practical even if everyone had the time, I work improvisationally with the musical situation, and try to compliment the music with my visuals as best I can. I could go on at length, but I have two or three pieces I'd like to finish before it is back to work on Monday At 10:12 AM -0800 12/30/09, Christopher Darrow wrote: >Looping is a juggling act, and a bit of magic. It takes a bit of >slight of hand to keep all the balls in the air. > >I think whatever is done with INTENTION to achieve this "counts." > >When I say that looping is a juggling act, I mean that (back when I >was looping all the time) I found that something new must constantly >be added to the loop for it to remain interesting. (To me or the >audience... I make no distinction.) So I found the shortest possible >means of "building" each of my songs. (Not that I always chose that >route, but good to have the musical "straight line" on tap.) > >But sometimes, there is just some necessary space that has to >happen... while switching instruments, letting a cycle finish, >whatever. So sometimes I would throw in a line of vocals or even >something as simple as smacking all the open guitar strings so >they'd ring and fade, or perhaps an unnecessary momentary reverse. >Anything to keep it feeling live. > >(I also found that the mix needed to be at about 60-65% loop to make >up for the extra energy and volume of the live inputs or else the >loop would automatically feel stale and canned right away. But I >can't fit that into my juggling metaphor.) > >So if some video slight-of-hand can expand the psychological >experience of freshness by offering additional stimulus, great. I >would add that it should be, as I say, "intentional" but everything >is really, to some degree, just by the simple choice of what video >to add. The more intention put into it, the more it "counts" as a >legit "musical (aka experiential) element." > >When I start looping again, I will be triggering video loops live as >well, saving those video clips with various lengths of sound bites >for the more "experimental/challenging*/soundscapey/whatever" >sections that stitch the songs together. > >* Regarding the word "challenging..." I get the meaning, and there >is truth to the idea that music may be harder to listen to if it >breaks certain culturally learned attributes, but one (speaking to >myself here as well as most loopers) must be careful not to use this >dynamic as cover for music that's just not fully evolved yet. >Because when we get it right, when it truly resonates (rather then >something masturbatory or without some new symmetry or other element >of true beauty) then that cultural bias is mostly negated. > >As for sales... so far I've done everything at a (huge) loss, and >mostly for myself. But I do feel that when things are done with >intention and from the heart, they succeed. (So do corporately >chosen and backed teen musicians that fit the latest provenly >marketable archetypes. There's more then one route. Which reminds >me...) If there's some rich looper on this list who wants to invest >in something cool, let me know! I'll tell you what I'm up to and the >final components I need! > > >---Christopher. > > > >On Dec 30, 2009, at 7:26 AM, Warren Sirota wrote: > >>Nice discussion. >> >>I've played with unrehearsed, uncoordinated visuals on several >>occasions. I have not liked the results. As an audience member, I >>have frequently seen visuals that, while interesting enough, were >>so randomly related to the music that I had to shut my eyes in >>order to hear the music (forcing me not to see the performers, >>however boring or unboring they might have been). >> >>I agree with Per - if you want to have visuals, integrate it into >>your art. become a multimedia artist, or work closely with one and >>develop an approach that means something. >> >> >>Interestingly enough, I would probably prefer to perform with >>someone fingerpainting with a project (a la Joshua Light Show, >>Fillmore East, 1968) over someone manipulating video because of the >>greater immediacy and (literal and functional) fluidity of the >>former.... >> >>-- >>Warren >><http://www.warrensirota.com>http://www.warrensirota.com >>NEW CD: Loops, Live & Otw >><http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/warrensirota>http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/warrensirota -- Emile Tobenfeld, Ph. D. Video Producer and Digital Photographer Image Processing Specialist Video for your HEAD! Boris FX http://www.foryourhead.com http://www.borisfx.com My photography can be viewed at http://www.flickr.com/photos/22231918@N06/collections/72157603627170351/ My videos can be viewed at http://www.youtube.com/Tobenfeld "Don't make book, if you cannot cover bets." -- Tom Lehrer