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I don't think that most of the listening public actually listens to music anymore. I think the big 4 record labels got where they are by identifying what most people like about the music - that there IS music, and that they feel like they can understand and identify with the images of the artist behind it. This is part of what made Michael Jackson and Madonna (and now Eminem and Lady Gaga) so huge - that they understood the "persona" of being a pop star is actually more important than the music itself. And for some of them, you have to give them credit - this "persona" thing can be an art form in itself. I actually have some respect for Lady Gaga as an artist. Not so much as a musician, but there is art to what she does. I think Beck was the most recent time an artist I listen to won a grammy, and it was one of his weaker albums. Unless Radiohead got something for "In Rainbows". I pay about as much attention to the Grammys as I do to the superbowl. Regarding experimentalness - it exists in most genres of music. The genre known as "Experimental/Avant Garde" is actually an umbrella term for 5 or 6 major branches of very different music, and a lot of subgenres. It probably has more groundbreaking work than other genre titles, but still more than 80% of the practitioners are working with very specific ideas that have had success in the past. I admit I love a lot of that stuff, but I can't pretend that it's more "creative" than pop music. When I can do so without sounding like a pompous ass, I try to push an idea of "personal music". That is, the musician focuses on distilling the elements that make them unique as a performer from the expectations that come with their genre or their gear. They work with the rules that they want to work with and ignore the rules that they don't want to work with. It involves constantly asking the question, "What does (your name here) REALLY sound like?" -- Matt Davignon mattdavignon@gmail.com www.ribosomemusic.com Rigs! www.youtube.com/user/ribosomematt