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Re: Foot Controllers.

Interesting Torben. This makes me wonder though somewhat unrelated if you could use a mouse to control XY  points on a plug in effect something like a kaoss pad. that would be cool. speaking of novation I just read an in depth article with Goyte. They use ableton and launchpad  extensively for their live set with various controllers. He said they just use a basic MacBook but he updated it with a solid state hard drive and they never have any problems

On Dec 9, 2015 10:08 AM, "Torben Scharling" <torbenscharling@gmail.com> wrote:
Hey guys, sorry I’ve blatantly glanced over this thread, but I recently bought my first “gamer mouse” a logitech g502 and I’m AMAZED at how smooth and precise the optical sensor is…I then learnt that in games, u can set it to raw input. That means it bypasses whatever settings and things the drivers etc. do in windows or os x and use the direct hardware drivers to run the mouse movement. Meaning it’s as fast as it can be. Which can be set to 1000Hz (quite an impressive refresh rate). Now this is a usb mouse of course, and I assume the same applies with “gamer” usb keyboards and perhaps other periferals as well..just as with running core audio in os x..Now in the game I’m playing, I cannot actually enable raw input for some geeky reason in OS X but works fine in Windows…Anyway my point is just, that I guess we’d wanna go for controllers that can run kinda like these devices, thus the latency doesn’t have to do with anything other than that (which is pro gamer level instant fast) and then your round trip latency obviously audio wise should be set as low as possible, then I think it should be as good as hardware…U guys have more experience with this, and or know devices that for sure don’t introduce latency? I would have never bothered with all this, but since I’m thinking of building my own usb midi pedal stomp box I’d wanna know more about this. Personal experience with the Novation Remote and Novation Remote SL Mk1, I was not happy with the delay before the software responded to hitting the faders and knobs…

On Wed, Dec 9, 2015 at 3:48 AM, Josh Elliott <jrelliott500@gmail.com> wrote:

Yes that makes alot of sense. I suppose if there is any latency in my hardware rig..I've grown used to it after 2 years. My Pog octave pedal(for bass lines) has bad latency..but I adjust to it. It bugs me though. But I want to use live like a hardware pedal..running acoustic instruments and voice through it. I have it working but can't figure out how to map undo to a controller...so no room for mistakes.

On Dec 8, 2015 8:41 PM, "Sylvain Poitras" <sylvain.trombone@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tue, Dec 8, 2015 at 9:07 PM, Josh Elliott <jrelliott500@gmail.com> wrote:

But...this is a big reason I'm afraid to move from hardware to software Looping. The clock sync in my hardware rig is sooo tight( at least to my ears) and I'm really afraid of latency being an issue in software setups.

Every instrument has latency. For guitarist, the sound is coming from somewhere onstage and the latency from the moment they play a note to the moment they hear the note can be quite long, depending on their setup. Guitarist learn to deal with this. I never could get used to that... I play trombone and I'm accustomed to hearing my notes in my head through bone conduction very slightly before I hear them with my ears. 

That doesn't mean I don't deal with latency issues... Low notes take longer to start than high notes (ask your physics teacher). When I play very low notes, I have to think to start the note before its time to make sure the long slow moving waves sync with the trumpets' high notes. Through practice, I've internalized that and my low notes are in time, even if I start them sooner than my ears tell me they should start.

There's latency inherent to playing with a group of musicians. I've played a lot of big band music with 24+ musicians. The size of the bandstand can hinder a group playing tight, unless you're listening for it and can adjust your playing. This is (partly) why large orchestras have conductors. The musicians sync to a visual cue, not what they hear, they could not sync otherwise. Again, they might start a note before the time that their ears tell them is the right time.

Playing an electronic instrument with latency should not be seen as impossible. With practice, you'll learn to trigger the notes or functions when you need to for the music to be in sync. As with most aspect of music playing, lack of practice is the problem, not (reasonable) latency. Of course, minimizing latency is a worthy goal, but I wouldn't make it an obsession... just fight it until you can live with it.

* * *
btw, you're thinking of using Live? One way that and other software deal with controller latency is to quantize commands to musically relevant times (1/16th, 1/8th...1 bar). Makes you sound tighter than you actually are. Never mind all that stuff about practicing, just hit buttons. ;)


Torben Scharling