Re: loops, ambient or otherwise

[Peter Ensign <peterensign@att.net>]

Mike Biffle wrote:
> 
> Thanks Reg for such clear and devoloped definitions regarding looping. 
>Most of
> my comments are in reply to your feelings about Robert Fripp below.
> 
> Reginald Hunt wrote...
> 
> >The topics below obviously touch on some interesting fundamental points:
> 
> >Music and Artistically Valid Noise
> 
> >Yes I consider them different. Possibly Music is a subset of AVN. Or 
>they
> >are side by side under a larger category(?) For me, method of 
>production is
> >irrelavant to whether I wish or need to hear the final result. Granted,
> >Music and AVN are broad subjects. They are not always about a final 
>sonic
> >result per se. But sometimes they are. And sometimes those sonic 
>results are
> >meant to achieve states of mind other than joy, anger, or pathos. Of 
>course,
> >approval of those states of mind is an essentially political choice.
> 
> >By method of production, I refer to technology and technique, and also 
>to
> >the envoronment the work is conceived in. Good work can be produced by
> >situations ranging from a lone person in his apartment to a 
>band/orchestra
> >in a live venue. But since the discussion here relates to Looping as the
> >technology/technique, I bring up the next point....
> 
> 
>>****************************************************************************
> >*********
> 
> >My operating definition of "looping" has been this:
> 
> >Electronically or mechanically repeated time segments of audio. The time
> >segments would be at least about 1 second. Obviously, the time segments 
>must
> >be shorter than infinite, or else no repeat occurs.
> 
> >A person sitting at a keyboard and playing the same phrase over and over
> >manually is not looping, he is repeating. Yodelling in a canyon is not
> >looping, it is echo. The effects can sometimes be similar using any of 
>the
> >three. Which is why I bring up the next point....
> 
> 
>>****************************************************************************
> >*********
> 
> >The purpose of looping to me appears to be:
> >To create interesting repeating patterns of sound (Music or AVN) easily.
> >To create thick layers of sounds unachievable in any any other 
>economically
> >feasable way.
> >To create a One-Man-Band.
> 
> >Any uses of looping I've experienced has fallen into one or more of 
>those
> >categories. Notice that I do not include any specific political,
> >psychological, or aesthetic goals. Looping in itself is neutral to 
>these.
> >However, any technology or technique has uses that are immediately
> >suggested, and others uses that are discovered or developed after 
>experience.
> 
> 
>>****************************************************************************
> >*********
> 
> >Unfortunately, the human animal can suffer from the tendency to follow
> >sheep-like (or lemming-like). Ambient music has suffered from its 
>contingent
> >of brain dead devotees, as has Fripp. Originally, ambient music was not
> >intended as a hypnotic tranquilizer (which looping inherently lends 
>itself
> >to). It was meant as music which operates equally on different levels of
> >awareness simultaneously. Persons who assume that loopers are into 
>ambient
> >music by default, are a type of bigot. But don't damn a style of music 
>for
> >that.
> 
> Does this imply that 'bad' ambient music has actually impaired our 
>ability to
> perceive Mr. Fripp? How nasty of the mediocrities.
> 
> I'm not sure how 'ambient' music was originally intended. Was there a 
>group
> charter for the genre or something? Or are we now following sheep-like, 
>some
> authority on the subject? I'd like to think that even the most 
>unassuming person
> who purchases *any* cheesy sounds to alter their environment, is somehow 
>taking
> a rather active measure to alter their experience somehow. Most 
>commendable!
> 
> Bigot? Let they without sin cast the first stone! Those mindless drones 
>have
> infected us all... Animals indeed!
> 
> >Fripp has always been an acquired taste. His explorations extend beyond
> >music per se. He has always questioned the audience-performer 
>relationship,
> >and the effect of the music business on musicians. His actions at
> >performances are reflective of all that and probably more. He's never 
>been
> >about being a "hot" player. The many comments I've seen here and 
>elsewhere
> >asking why he doesn't "rip it up", or about him leavng the stage and
> >observing the audience, shows a lack of understanding about the artist.
> 
> To believe that I don't understand the artist because I have preferences 
>as to
> what I might experience at a performance seems a little PC to me. I've 
>been able
> to enjoy the vast differences in much of Fripps output. Fripp doesn't 
>have to
> always rip, but if I shell out to go see him, I'm hoping I might get 
>some tiny
> portion that which I know to also be alive somewhere in his soul as 
>well. After
> all the pendulum does swing both ways.
> 
> >Fripp has never been about being a Looper, either. For him it is a 
>method,
> >not the point. Seems to me, that's a good lesson for a lot of us.
> 
> >Reg
> 
> I dislike being boxed in by labels and expectations as well. Did you 
>study with
> Mr. Fripp or what? I have been a Fripp fan and have followed his 
>techniques and
> attitudes quite closely since 'In The Court...'.
> 
> I've found that as I've grown older, I sometimes have to cut to the 
>chase a
> little quicker than I used to. If I lack understanding about Fripp as an 
>artist
> because I hope to see him in a comfortable, non-combative setting, which 
>might
> allow for undistracted listening, then so be it. Let me be 'responsible' 
>for my
> own listening experience without dictating to me. Maybe I'm just an old
> intolerant fart as well. Who am I to dictate?
> 
> If lectures become a larger part of other artists performances, I may 
>begin
> having a harder time enjoying them as well. Although I might actually 
>pursue
> some artists due to their engaging communication style and content. I 
>believe
> Fripp is starting to sound redundant to me at this point. Hopefully the 
>pendulum
> will swing again and I will enjoy many more years of delightful Fripp 
>output.
> 
> I find it somewhat totalitarian though that Fripp expects certain 
>conformities
> from his audience without somehow realizing that his audience might 
>expect some
> regard for their needs as well. Especially having shelled out their 
>ducats.
> 
> I have my own artistic requirements and expectations of an audience as 
>well, but
> I find that it gets quite complicated when I consider the many possible 
>ways in
> which people listen and communicate. With that in mind I find it a 
>little harder
> to tell them to shut up and listen or some other such dictate. Maybe 
>when I get
> completely fed up with their antics, I'll lay down the law as well. More 
>power
> to Mr. Fripp.
> 
> Loop on brother...
> -Miko Biffle
> 
> 
>>****************************************************************************
> >*********
> 
>>****************************************************************************
> >*********
> 
> From: "Liebig, Steuart A." <LiebigSA@Maritz.com>
> To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
> Subject: RE: location & Loopers' CD
> Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 18:17:26 -0600<>Resent-Message-ID:
> <"vt6_M.A.yJF.WJm10"@ferret>
> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
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> Resent-To: rphunt@tiac.net
> Resent-Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 16:29:25 -0800
> 
> Yeah, I tend to think of loops as being only a small part of the
> live/recorded imporvised or composed experience. A small part of the
> canvas, sometimes you need to do alot sometimes a little; sometimes
> intense noise, sometimes tonal bliss . . . If all you are doing is
> looping, well I don't know . . . are you playing music or IC chips? . .
> . I only say this because I have friends who have gone this route and
> I'm not really sure that it leads to what I consider an important factor
> in music: human interaction. (Often have the same problem with totally
> pre-recorded concerts or music concrete.)
> 
> > ----------
> > From:         Kim Flint
> > Reply To:     Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
> > Sent:         Monday, February 2, 1998 4:04 PM
> > To:   LiebigSA@maritz.com
> > Subject:      Re: location & Loopers' CD
> >
> > At 03:44 PM 2/2/98 EST, paparuda o o wrote:
> > >
> >
> > >yeah! even more, i would actually like to meet other loopers;
> >
> > I think that is generally a great idea, and probably my biggest
> > motivation
> > for creating this whole monster of an internet address! Get together!
> > Collaborate! Share ideas! Real-live or Virtual! Go forth and Multiply!
> >
> >
> > (pun intended there....)
> >
> >
> > >it's seems to me that most of the loopers are into "ambient"
> > >instrumental music.
> >
> > I'm not. In fact, I'm morally opposed to being an ambient musician.
> > What
> > others choose to do with their lives is their own business, but I
> > resolutely
> > refuse to have anything to do with this ambient stuff. I'm deeply
> > offended
> > by any implication that being into looping means I'm ambient. I'm
> > proud of
> > my long history here resisting the ambient tyranny that threatens to
> > overcome all other loopists! I will also continue to resist shameless
> > idol
> > worship of this Fripp fellow. Soundscapes, poundcakes. Not for me!
> >
> > of course, neither of those is as sick as being a deadhead. Those
> > maniacs
> > are actually planning to open a Grateful Dead theme park in San
> > Francisco.
> > The apocalypse will arrive none too soon.
> >
> > this, of course, gets many smiley's:  :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)
> >
> >
> > >so, please, if you have a copy of the "loopers CD", or
> > >would like to share your (COPYRIGHT protected) looped music
> > >can you let me know?
> >
> > that CD project actually is not yet completed. As I understand, it's
> > in a
> > bag on someone's shelf awaiting arrival of the still-vaporware-Layla
> > sound
> > card. Seems likely that CD #2 will arrive before CD #1.
> >
> > kim
> > _______________________________________________________
> > Kim Flint                     408-752-9284
> > Mpact Systems Engineering     kflint@chromatic.com
> > Chromatic Research            http://www.chromatic.com
> >
> >
i dont want this shit