Re: what a loop has to say

[Todd Howell <ransacker@earthlink.net>]

To add to the current debate, I would say there are varying levels of 
hiding behind technology and to see what the true motivation is. That gets 
you on a slippery slope one you start the debate. Personally, I realize my 
own set of limitations when I play. I am not particularly fast, but can be 
fluent when I take my time with things. I guess that looping allows me to 
build in small micro-steps sometimes, avoiding the need to make "the big 
statement now" kind of thing. I also realize that when I've tried to be 
some manner of shredder (trust that I was unimpressive) that I've done 
things that sounded completely unreal for me. I am not a blues, straight 
into the amp kind of cat and I realize that when I've tried to play like 
that, it is just not that interesting. So hence, I have a big board on the 
floor with all manner of processing goodies. Whatever gives you your true 
voice is what I would say. Whatever, that is go with that and celebrate 
it. It is a big world and someone will appreciate your uniqueness be you 
Fripp, Frissell or just plain me doodling to my border collie and cats. 

That is how I see it. I of course could very well be wrong. 

Todd

-----Original Message-----
>From: Kris Hartung <khartung@cableone.net>
>Sent: Mar 17, 2006 11:35 AM
>To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
>Subject: Re: what a loop has to say
>
>> I mean, if you follow the logic of 'hiding behind gear', where do you 
>draw 
>> the line?
>
>You don't. It's a spectrum, or a bell curve. No lines, no black and white.
>
>> When you pluck an acoustic guitar, you aren't making the sound- very 
>basic
>> technology (strings vibrating over a sound hole) creates the sound. Are 
>> you
>> then hiding behind the technology of the acoustic guitar? I guess only
>> vocalists would be considered pure musicians then.  ; )
>
>Perhaps. I've seen this argued before, but that would be the extreme end 
>of 
>the spectrum and bell curve. With certain assumptions, one could make a 
>valid argument for this.
>
>> To me- if I can use it (whether 'it' be a bass, a wood block, a 
>Flanger, a
>> laptop or a Repeater) to make noise, it's an instrument. From there the
>> only thing that matters is how the artist chooses to use the sound 
>> creation
>> device.
>
>I agree with you, philosophically here, but there are still glaring 
>examples 
>where not a lot of talent and artistic creativity in producing a piece of 
>music, but is relying primarily on processing after the fact. I can't be 
>convinced otherwise, because I see it in the flesh frequently.  It is 
>easy 
>to say that we are all just using instruments and promote this "I'm Okay, 
>You're Okay" approach, but in my opinion this is also an all to 
>convenient 
>way to avoid the talent and creativity component, will varies in radical 
>degrees in performances.  The fact remains, there are people out there 
>that 
>havne't really mastered there instruments or who are intermediate players 
>(and who will openly admit this) still struggligg with their main 
>instrument, who use gear to compensate for that. It's not right or wrong, 
>good or bad...I just see it and think it needs to be recognized.
>
>I'm talking way too much here and getting more acute in my opinions. I 
>apologize for that. I'll refrain from responding for a while.
>
>Kris
>
>
>
>
>> Well that got a little more lengthy than I thought I was going to
>> go.....just some Friday morning ramblings.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>             "Kris Hartung"                    To: 
>> Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
>>             <khartung@cableone.net>           cc:
>>             03/17/2006 10:46 AM               Subject:  Re: what a loop 
>> has to say
>>             Please respond to
>>             Loopers-Delight
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> My wife once told me that when I sit down with my acoustic guitar and 
>just
>> play freely, that what she hears sound more creative than anything else 
>I
>> do with my gear, looping, etc. I find that sort of interesting 
>(sometimes
>> discouraging)...makes me start to question what is really necessary for 
>me
>> to express myself artistically, vs. hiding behind the gear. Heck, if I 
>can
>> sit down at a gig with just my acoustic, and satisfy both myself and 
>> others
>> artistically, I'd probably be retired right now with all the money I 
>would
>> have saved!  :)
>>
>> But I just love the effects, and I openly admit that "sometimes" they do
>> substitute for true, raw creativity. I would be surprised if anyone on 
>> this
>> list who uses a lot of gear thought or felt otherwise.  It would take 
>> quite
>> a artistic genius to ALWAYS, 100% of the time, have effects acquiesce to
>> one's talent and creativity, rather than the other way around. Either an
>> artistic genius, or a complete liar.
>>
>> Kris
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: daniel stevenson
>> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
>> Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 2:39 AM
>> Subject: Re: what a loop has to say
>>
>> i do find the clean acoustic guitar to be my muse.yet ill mangle it with
>> reverse and speed control.varible delay times seems to keep the sound
>> pure.maybe just a phase im goin thru but nothing beats a good ole 
>acoustic
>> source into a looper.
>>                                     my best regards,
>>                                                               scary
>> visionary.
>>
>> Kris Hartung <khartung@cableone.net> wrote:
>>  > Yep, to me a loop says, "Freedom."
>>  > G
>>
>>  Speaking of which, does anyone find it easier to freely improvise when
>>  you
>>  aren't using layers and layers of effects, tone mangling devices, etc?
>>  I've
>>  found this to be the case with me. I love all the cool effects at my
>>  disposal - the Boss VF-1, hundreds of VST effects, LXP5, etc - but they
>>  sometimes produce artificial restrictions or boundaries on my 
>creativity.
>>  I
>>  tend to be more intentionally and genuinely creative, and less enamored
>>  and
>>  influenced by technology, when I just play with a clean guitar sound 
>with
>>
>>  just a touch of reverb and delay for ambiance. You have nothing but the
>>  notes, basically, no window dressing to distract the creative process.
>>  I'm
>>  sure this is quite subjective and relative, but I'd be curious what
>>  others
>>  think of this. I guess just the simple sound of the guitar forces me to
>>  think more out of the box, rather than relying on the box. For example,
>>  you
>>  have a effect patch that has two octaves and panning delays that go on
>>  forrrrrrrever....you play one "note"...just one human data-point of
>>  interaction, and the gear takes credit for the rest of the interesting
>>  sound
>>  for the next minute. And I start to think to myself, what is really
>>  creative
>>  about that? I could play 10 notes in 3 minutes and produce a song that
>>  requires very little creative energy. It would be interesting to take 
>all
>>
>>  of our looping songs and strip every single cool effect from them,
>>  resulting
>>  in just the initially, humanly generated notes and natural sound of the
>>  instrument...what might we discover? How much of the intrigue of the 
>song
>>  is
>>  generated by the gear vs. human creative energy? These are just open
>>  questions for discussion. I'm not necessarily making any categorical
>>  point
>>  here.
>>
>>  And in this regard, I really respect a lot of the work of Derek Bailey,
>>  where its just him and his hollowbody guitar...quite amazing what a guy
>>  can
>>  do with just a guitar and amp.
>>
>>  ...I'm off to bed now. It's been a long day.
>>
>>  Kris
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Yahoo! Mail
>> Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> This e-mail message (including attachments, if any) is intended for the 
>> use
>> of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain
>> information that is privileged, proprietary , confidential and exempt 
>from
>> disclosure.  If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified 
>that
>> any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is
>> strictly prohibited.  If you have received this communication in error,
>> please notify the sender and erase this e-mail message immediately.
>> 
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> 
>
>