Re: Beyond Fripp

[Jon Durant <74074.1316@CompuServe.COM>]

Matthias writes:

>I guess thats what I meant when I felt we had to go "beyond Fripp" in
>looping - get out of "delaying". Beyond maybe is rather understood as
>"farther in the same direction", while I meant musical broadening.

>Is that what you meant, too, Jon?

Certainly, I was referring to musical broadening with regards to Fripp. I 
think
that there's so much more that can be done with delays/loopage than he's 
put
forth. Witness how far Torn has taken things, for example. I'm not sure 
what you
mean by "getting out of delaying". The delay (altered or not; 
JamMan/Echoplex,
Vortex, PCM 42, Midiverb, computer software, whatever) is the primary 
instrument
for all of us loopists, though other pieces are also utilized. 

Michaels adds:
>The album contains a lot of structured, non-improvised loops - is this 
>>what we
need "beyond Fripp"?  Structure, rather than improv?

Not necessarily. Improvisation (at it's best) is where the real spirit of 
the
musician comes through. On the other hand, some structure can be very 
useful, if
for nothing else than to point in a direction. Personally, I find it most
interesting when both structure and improv are utilized to create a single
magnificent entity.

Clarification (I hope): I think what I was trying to say is that I see a 
whole
range a possibilities within "looping" that are not touched upon in Fripp's
work: Dynamics (mentioned earlier); rhythmic possibilities; letting go on 
top of
the loopage (I really love Fripp's solos, and would greatly enjoy hearing 
him
rip on top of some of his soundscapes); use of various sound sources 
(different
guitar tones-fuzzed or not or synthed or slide or ebow or scraped strings 
or
whatever; adding vox; adding odd noises; etc); harmonic movement, etc. So 
many
options not yet taken within his work. Also a small point: when I speak of
Loopage, I'm talking also about delays which do not "loop", but do 
receiculate
as a part of the music. From what I've heard, many of the soundscape pieces
aren't loops but many different long delay patterns.

Anyone who has heard "What Means Solid, Traveller?" by David Torn should 
have a
sense of how far looping can be taken. After all,the whole record is 
essentially
a series of loops. Some were PCM 42, some were JamMan, and some were
computer-derived. But none of it sounds stale. This album is very abrasive
(intentionally), but is a masterwork in the field of looping. And there 
are more
examples: Check out Robby Aceto's "Code" for some more pop-oriented looping
ideas (Robby is an occasional contributor to this group); Andre (The Man
Himself) sent me a tape that has some very interesting work, very strong
ideas--The Guitar Player write-up was well deserved. Also, coming in the 
spring,
I'll have a new CD which was entirely created on the JamMan. (Though not 
all the
parts are now played on the Jam-beast, but that's how they started). All of
these recordings speak to several of the issues I've raised. (And I'm sure 
there
are more, but I've rambled enough already...)

BTW--This is in no way intended to dis Mr. Fripp. I have the highest 
regard for
his work throughout the years, and he's one of only a handful of musicians 
who
have stuck to their guns in the face of commercial pressure and continued 
to
make interesting and provocative music. It's just that I think he could do 
more
in the looping arena. And I sincerely hope that he will.

Later,
Jon