RE: midi looper

["Jim Palmer" <jimp@pobox.com>]

remember, my main objection was that some audio looping
concepts don't make much sense in a midi looper.
i really like the idea of a midi looper.

> ...
> > yeah, you can work around some of this, but it will be weird to get 
> > used to using it, and in some cases will defeat,
> 
> You're right of course.  I just meant that there are many 
> ways to get around the "problems" you've brought up.  I think 
> its going to depend on the player which is way makes the most sense.
> 

clearly such a device would have to be user configurable.


>...
> normally if I want two lines going at the 
> same moment, they'd be on two different channels, or at least 
> two different registers of the keyboard.
> 

the problem with a bump at the loop point in audio loopers
is usually are associated with drones and such.  
this would cause overlapping note pairs on the second pass.  
ex. hit record, play long cluster or single note, hit overdub
when you immediately get another note-on on what you are holding.
then when you release during the loop, subsequent playbacks will have a 
short (relatively) note or cluster followed by silence.

> > i don't see that as all that graceful.  if you ignore cc commands 
> > while overdubbing, you are hardly overdubbing. notes have similar
> 
> I'm not sure, but I would bet that most commonly CC commands 
> come in "bursts".  In other words mostly you've got constant 
> CC values, but sometimes a pedal is moved (a burst of CC 
> messages) and then you settle back into constant CC value.  
> You could identify "bursts" and keep track of their duration 
> - got me?  Then the user could choose either replace or 
> ignore when overdubbing with CCs.  ignore would basically 
> ignore new bursts that overlap old ones, while replace 
> ditches all old bursts that overlap with new incomming ones.
> 

this is a good idea. again, it must be user configurable.
but it is always dangerous to make assumptions about how
people will use a device.  i commonly use a continuous controller
with my analog delay to manually chorus or get weird with 
pitch shift/feedback oscillation.  this result in a very continuous
stream of cc.  (obviously i haven't tried looping the cc)

also i could see using a switched cc (64=on,0=off) where
the user would want to insert switch changes rapidly
for example for the glitchy stuff susinsert allows for on the edp.
you wouldn't want those magically removed for you...

>...
>... ALWAYS go straight into "selective overdub" when 
> exiting record mode which to means that it will be in overdub 
> - but only listening to note-off commands that would close up 
> a note already in the main loop.
> 

see above comments on loop point bump.

>...
> > hmmm... thorsten's midibox as a looper...
> 
> maybe you should ask him!
> 

i'll bet he would say "great idea, why don't you make it"
which i might do after i make the stock mf module and
then my cc footpedal we discussed at length.

> > did anybody make it this far down?
> 
> obviously.
> Jon
> 

good stuff...