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"...but then again, i come from the phish jam school where music is a collective effort and not a solo thing" Had the loopers you witnessed been practicing together on that on instrument (read: instrument + loopers + other gear) for over 10 years? The reason Phish sounds so tight *together*, is because they have played *together* so much. They know how to communicate with each other using a meta language of the music that they are actually playing! I have NEVER heard a jam as cohesive as a Phish jam (post '94 let's say), at an open jam night. Have you? If so, where can I go to hear such awesome jams and interconnectedness from people who have JUST met each other that night/recently? -Nathan .-. .-. .-. / \ / \ .-. / \ .-. .-. / \ --/-----\-----/---\----N-a-t-h-a-n---@---G-i-z-a-.-c-o-m------/-------\ / \ / \ / \ / '-' \ / \ '-' \ / '-' \ / \ / \ / '-' '-'